Marilisa Allegrini48 MINUTES

A new podcast series from Doug Shafer about the people behind the food and wine you love.

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Doug Shafer and Marilisa Allegrini

Marilisa Allegrini travels the world promoting her families wines made throughout Italy’s top appellations. She was not always eager to be part of the family business. In her 20s she pursued a career in medicine before her father talked her into joining the family business. She has been a pivotal figure in the renaissance of wines from Valpolicella and beyond. Enjoy!

For more visit: allegrini.it


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FULL TRANSCRIPT

 

Doug:
So, welcome back everybody, another episode of The Taste, we are still here in New York, um, having a great time, and, our next guest is, uh, a longtime friend, I must say she and I crossed paths often at wine events, trade shows, dealing with distributors and importers, she's one of the most positive, upbeat people I know, and it's always fun to be with her, and I got her up early this morning to be with us today, Marilissa Allegrini from Allegrini in Verona, Italy, welcome.

Marilisa:
Thank you very much Doug.

Doug:
It's great -

Marilisa:
Thank, thank you for your wonderful words.

Doug:
Oh thank you, it's great to be here. I, I have to tell a story because back in 2013, um, Vinitaly, which is in Verona every year, a wonderful, wonderful international trade show, you always host a big gala dinner with, I don't know two, three, four hundred people -

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
It's a lot of people at Della Torre - Villa della Torre.

Marilisa:
Villa della Torre, yes.

Doug:
Right, which is fantastic place we'll talk about more later and um, you - you reached out to me and said "Hey Doug would you mind supplying, uh, one of your wines for one of the courses at dinner," and I was stunned and honored, and, uh, we served the 2008 Relentless, but you invited Annette and me. We attended this gala. It was a beautiful night, big rain storm we had fireworks, dancing, wonderful food, great wines and it was so nice to have a chance to expose so many people internationally from around the world, the world of wine to one of Shafer wines. So thank you very much for that opportunity.

Marilisa:
No, you were so generous, and you brought the number one wine of Wine Spectator.

Doug:
That was a good one, yeah.

Marilisa:
And you know, uh, Doug, I like this kind of sharing experience. I think that, uh, sharing in a, in the wine production is something that is very, very important and is very positive because, uh, I can learn from you a lot. You can learn coming to Italy, uh. about the story of the Italian producer. So it's something that, uh, really please me.

Doug:
Well, I, I'm in the, I'm in the same camp on that one. I have had so much fun meeting winemakers and vintners from Italy, Germany, Switzerland, France and sharing stories and it's, it's fascinating, the more you get to know people, and what they do and what they make, to realize hey, you know, what methods we use in California, Napa Valley don't necessarily work in Verona or Chianti or um-

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
In Switzerland or France. So it's fun to compare notes and to see what works and what doesn't, so -

Marilisa:
I like this thing. Sharing experiences-

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marilisa:
Challenge and also emotion-

Doug:
Yes.

Marilisa:
This is very important.

Doug:
Well I, I, I know you would agree with my also as some of my best friends in the world, in my life -

Marilisa:
(laughs). Thank-

Doug:
Have been made through our business of wine -

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
So it's, it's a wonderful medium for sharing, but I want to talk about you, your fam- my family's been making wine about one and a half generations-

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
And how long has the Allegrini family been making wine?

Marilisa:
Officially, I am the sixth generation in the wine -

Doug:
Sixth?

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Sixth generation? Wow.

Marilisa:
Business but, uh, the Allegrini family has been living in Valpolicella since the 1200. So they, they, it was a family in the agricultural field, and, uh, the company officially started in the middle of, uh, 1800.

Doug:
Wow, so they lived there since the 1200s, agriculture -

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
But started making wine -

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
In the 1800s.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Man I feel like just a baby-

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
That's so fantastic. um so it's always been Verona and tell me about your family growing up. So you grew up there, mom, dad, brothers, sisters?

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
What was that like?

Marilisa:
My, Verona is a beautiful city, is Roman medieval and the Renaissance city, and the country side that surround Verona is very important for wine production, and uh, uh Valpolicella Classico area is located in the Western part of the city of Verona toward the lake Garda.

Doug:
Toward Lake Garda, right.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And there are this, uh, beautiful parallel valleys and, this is Valpolicella and, uh, literally Valpolicella means the Valley of Many Cellars.

Doug:
The Valley of Many Cellars?

Marilisa:
Yes because –

Doug:
That's what Valpolicella means, okay.

Marilisa:
And the name come from both Latin and Greek-

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And this is the witness of the history of this area because Valpolicella, uh, was famous at the Roman time. And, uh, at that time the wine Valpolicella was [n/a] and Amerone, or Richotto was [n/a].

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
These were the original Valpolicella wines.

Doug:
The original wines?

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Because, okay. And I wanna talk about Amarone later. Okay, so. Okay, so. And so, your family, so you were born, you, mom and dad-

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
They were, they were making wine?

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Your father?

Marilisa:
My, my father, uh, was the guy that expanded the property.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
By buying new vineyards and increasing production. And he was a very easy going man, but very, very smart.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And, um, he started, uh, exporting the wine to America in 1972. So, he understood that it was very important to also to be visible in the world. And, uh, my father was kind of pioneer for the Valpolicella .

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
Because he introduced a lot of innovation. You know that, uh, in Valpolicella or some other area in Italy the pergolla training system is, uh, uh, the-

Doug:
The pergolla training system which is a training system for grapevines.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Right. Was that-

Marilisa:
Yes. Was the only, and my father in 1979, he introduce the double Grillo systems.

Doug:
The double Grillo? So it was all Pergolla system, which was a certain way of training vines, and the double Grillo is a more modern technique.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
And basically, you get better quality grapes.

Marilisa:
Yes. Yes.

Doug:
Good.

Marilisa:
And, uh, um, now if you go around the Valpolicella, you can see that, uh, 50% of the vineyards are planted exactly as they did almost 40 years ago. So he was the always in the forefront of innovation.

Doug:
Pioneer trying new things-

Marilisa:
Yes. Yes.

Doug:
Innovating.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
So where, how, 'cause I'm, I'm assuming, you know that area, been there for making wine, growing grapes 100s and 100s of years. The traditions, I mean even in Napa just for maybe a hundred years, the traditions are hard to break. So, how, how do you think, how'd he learn about the new things and innovation? Did he travel? Like-

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Like you.

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
You're a r- road warrior. Um, how'd he do that?

Marilisa:
My father paid one visit to California.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And I think it was 1976.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And he saw, uh, this different training system. And so he understood the important concept is not just the yield per acre, but is the yield per vine.

Doug:
Ah.

Marilisa:
So you can make better quality if you reduce the quantity that you produce per vine.

Doug:
Which is so true. So he realized-

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Ton, tons per acre or yield per acre is, is, you make, you know is fine, but for quality, it's yield per vine-

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
To control that.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Get better, smaller amount.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Because you get better grapes, and it's better wines.

Marilisa:
Because with the pergolla training system, you can produce 20 kilos of grape per vine.

Doug:
Right.

Marilisa:
But, uh, it, the result is a very diluted wine.

Doug:
Right.

Marilisa:
If you manage the yield per vine, you can make wine with better concentration, and this, uh, the intuition that he had. And you know, he started a quality revolution of different Valpolicella because Valpolicella, before was known for very, uh, simple wines.

Doug:
Just simple wines.

Marilisa:
Yes. Yes.

Doug:
Very easy, every day drinking.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Not a lot of flavor.

Marilisa:
Yeah.

Doug:
Not the concentration.

Marilisa:
Exactly.

Doug:
Which when, when you have big yields per acre-

Marilisa:
Yeah.

Doug:
Uh, and big yields per vine, your wines tend to be more dilute-

Marilisa:
Exactly.

Doug:
They're fine, but they're in simple, and I don't mean to use the word simple in a negative sense-

Marilisa:
Yeah.

Doug:
But just, they don't have the character and extraction that, that we have today. Wow. So your dad did that. So were you, like, growing up, were you working in the vineyards or working in the cellar or were you just going to school and having fun? Or you know?

Marilisa:
Well, when I was a child-

Doug:
Yeah.

Marilisa:
It was the best, uh, way to spend some time with my dad.

Doug:
Ah.

Marilisa:
To go in the vineyard with him and so, uh, I was, uh, I fell in love, of course, with the, uh, land, with the landscape, with the viticulture, but when I was a teenager, I was kind of rebel.

Doug:
That (laughs)-

Marilisa:
I didn't want-

Doug:
That doesn't surprise me at all.

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
I didn't want to work in the family company, and I said to my dad, don't count on me. You have two boys. You, they can secure.

Doug:
You, you have two brothers, okay.

Marilisa:
Two brothers, yes.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
You can secure the continuation of the company, so I will do something else.

Doug:
Wow. Look at you.

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
Just boom. And so what did he, what did he say?

Marilisa:
Uh, oh. He was quite, uh, I don't know, sad.

Doug:
Sad, okay.

Marilisa:
But, um, what I wanted to do was, uh, to study medicine.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And he knew that by studying medicine, I would never come back to the family company. So, he said to me, "You can go to the university, but not outside Verona." And in Verona, there was no medical school.

Doug:
(laughs).

Marilisa:
But he didn't know that there was something connected with medicine that was a university.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marilisa:
And it was physical therapy.

Doug:
Physical therapy?

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
So that was in Verona? He didn't know about that?

Marilisa:
He didn't know. (laughs).

Doug:
(laughs). You two, you two were, you two were very smart going back and forth. I can see this.

Marilisa:
We were fighting-

Doug:
Yes. Yes.

Marilisa:
All the time.

Doug:
Yeah.

Marilisa:
And, uh, so I said, "Okay, I don't study economics or foreign languages. I will study physical therapies." So he couldn't say anything. He couldn't say no.

Doug:
Right. 'Cause he'd already committed. Right.

Marilisa:
And so I study physical therapy, and then I work for five years in the hospital. And one day, we had the discussion, and he said, "Please. I want you to come back to the family company."

Doug:
Oh. That's great.

Marilisa:
And, uh, so my brother were already-

Doug:
Yeah.

Marilisa:
Working.

Doug:
How'd that make you feel?

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
Was that good?

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Yeah.

Marilisa:
I was sad because I love what I was doing, but, uh, I felt the family commitment-

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marilisa:
And so, at one point i decide to resign from my previous job, and to join the family company.

Doug:
That's great. But meanwhile, you've got that physical therapy background because-

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
You know, you and I, we're, we're not, we're j- we're, we're, we're more mature these days.

Marilisa:
(laughs). Yes.

Doug:
And so we have some aches, so, yeah.

Marilisa:
Oh, but the exercise that I did are still helping me.

Doug:
Right. Exercises. Yeah. I need, I had to stretch a lot this morning after being put all night last night. Um, all right, so you're back with the company. How old were you when you came back to the company?

Marilisa:
I was, uh, 26 years old.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And, uh, unfortunately two years later, my father suddenly and unexpectedly passed away.

Doug:
Oh.

Marilisa:
So at least I had two years to spend with him, and to learn from him, uh, because my father was not just, uh, a good grape grower and a, uh, winemaker.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marilisa:
But he was very, very hospitable. So I learn to be that is the best way to promote the company. To open the door of your home, your winery, and, uh, to be very friendly.

Doug:
I've always wondered where it came from with you because you are so gracious. So it came from your dad. What I failed to mention earlier was after our gala dinner, you have two other beautiful properties, one in Bolgheri -

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
And one in Montalcino.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
And guest houses there. And you, you were with Annette and me and you said, "Go. Have fun." So we spent two nights at each spot. We had a, by the way, we had a, such a great trip. It was great trip. But, ho- just hospitality was fantastic. So that came from your dad.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
And then your two brothers were, so they were in production, and you were in the office or in, well, hospitality, sales?

Marilisa:
Yeah. No, I, I started working in the office.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And I realized that, uh, the administration was not, uh, my (laughs), what make me excited. And so, I started traveling.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And first market was, uh, United States.

Doug:
When was that? What year?

Marilisa:
It was in 1983.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And I learn everything from this market because, uh, I learned that, uh, my English was, it's not perfect now, but at that time, it was very, very, very basic.

Doug:
(laughs).

Marilisa:
So I learned to communicate precise thing.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marilisa:
I learned to express in the best possible way the feeling that you have when you are at the winery.

Doug:
Right.

Marilisa:
When you taste the wine, and, uh, to communicate with passion and to communicate in a very easy way because this is I think what is important for a wine producer.

Doug:
In the 1983, you're 26, 27 years old. Hadn't really, you know, Verona's a beautiful area, but it's an agricultural area. It's, it's not, you know a big metropolitan city. And, uh, all of a sudden, you're in, probably in New York City.

Marilisa:
(laughs). Yes.

Doug:
Selling wine. Your English isn't that great. What was that like?

Marilisa:
I was smiling a lot.

Doug:
You're smiling. And you're selling Valpolicella .

Marilisa:
Valpolicella .

Doug:
And, uh, what was that like 'cause, you know, what was-

Marilisa:
Valpolicella at the time was not, uh, uh, very popular.

Doug:
Yes.

Marilisa:
Or it was popular in a bad way. And so, for me, Valpolicella was, and for my father was, uh, one of the best part of the world. And so I said, why Valpolicella is not, uh, attractive. And, uh, I understood that, uh, the quality of Valpolicella was the market was not the, the best one.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And so, you know, it was, uh, very difficult to go, uh, one sh- shop-

Doug:
Shop.

Marilisa:
To another one.

Doug:
Sure. To a restaurant.

Marilisa:
To a restaurant, etc. and to promote Valpolicella . And, uh, to open the bottle, and to let the customer to taste the wine. And slowly, slowly I give a contribution on the rebirth of the Valpolicella . Of course, other producer from the area did same thing-

Doug:
Well, so did you go back and talk to your brothers and other producers-

Marilisa:
Yeah.

Doug:
And say we need to improve quality?

Marilisa:
Yes. We need to-

Doug:
So, and so I'm th- I'm guessing you were the only one doing that because I don't think other people from your area were traveling and promoting-

Marilisa:
No, they were some other producer, but definitely I was, uh, one of the first.

Doug:
Yeah.

Marilisa:
And it was definitely the first woman that started doing this.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And, um, when it came back, I told Franco and Walter, we have to focus on the concept of single vineyard.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marilisa:
Rather than just the DOC appellation. And this is when we started with the Pallazo de la Torre with La Grola, and with La Poja, which are our single vineyard wines-

Doug:
So-

Marilisa:
From Valpolicella .

Doug:
So you went back and worked with Franco and Walter.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Who were, who were growing the grapes and making the wine.

Marilisa:
Yeah.

Doug:
Yeah. And tell me about La Grola because that's, that's, that's a famous, famous vineyard. That's, that's your, isn't that one of your best right there?

Marilisa:
Yes. La Grola is a beautiful single vineyard. It's located on top of a hill overlooking Lake Garda, the Louvre Plain, and the mountains on the other side. And so it has the perfect microclimate. And La Grola was the vineyard where my father planted the double Grillo system.

Doug:
And he plant his scorvina. The grapes were-

Marilisa:
Corvina.

Doug:
Corvina.

Marilisa:
And also, another grape variety that is an indigenous grape variety of a Valpolicella , probably you have never heard about this.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marilisa:
Or Zaletta.

Doug:
Zaletta, no.

Marilisa:
Zaletta is, if we can find some similarities like Petite Verdot is similar.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
Do you have some Petite Verdot in your vineyards?

Doug:
We do. We do.

Marilisa:
Do you like Petite Verdot?

Doug:
Yeah. We, we like it. It's got a wonderful aromatics. Very, the perfume's just so neat. We love that.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
We use it to blend a little bit with Cabernet. Yeah.

Marilisa:
Okay. We, you don't make 100%?

Doug:
No, we don't make 100%.

Marilisa:
Yeah. Is a, is a grape variety that has a lot of tannins-

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marilisa:
And so is very good with blend, I think.

Doug:
Right. Okay. So you came back. You, you, how w- how were your brothers when you came back and say, (laughs), 'cause I know family.

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
You know you come back. Here, here's, here's little sister, 'cause you were the little sister, right?

Marilisa:
Yes. No.

Doug:
Or you're in the middle?

Marilisa:
No. In the middle.

Doug:
You're in the middle.

Marilisa:
Franco is the-

Doug:
Even more exciting.

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
So you guys, (laughs)-

Marilisa:
I'm the only woman.

Doug:
I'm, I'm a middle child also, but, um, so you come back to your brothers and say, "Hey, fellas. We need to make better wine." Were they like okay with that? Or were they like, what's your, what's the problem, sister?

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
I mean, you know.

Marilisa:
No I think that, uh, they were very curious.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
They, they have the same approach that my dad has.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
So to be innovative and to start with a single vineyard was something very innovative for the Valpolicella . And so they, they were curious.

Doug:
Right.

Marilisa:
And in 1983 was the first of vintage of both La Grola and La Poja. La Poja is 100% Corvina. So, they, um, approach the production with the single vineyard, and wine with concentration, but not with the drying process, but, uh, with viticulture. Concentration that come from viticulture.

Doug:
Without, without the drying.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
'Cause normally, I think traditionally Valpolicella was to have a percentage of the grapes were dried and then, they come back into the main fermentation. Is that correct?

Marilisa:
Amarone is-

Doug:
Amarone is not very-

Marilisa:
A wine made with 100% dried grapes.

Doug:
Got it.

Marilisa:
But, uh, we have Pallazo De La Torre, which is made with the 30% dried grapes.

Doug:
Right.

Marilisa:
So, we achieved the concentration with some, or 100% dried grapes. But La Grola and La Poja, the concentration come from viticulture.

Doug:
Viticulture.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Okay. I got that. So I'm gonna review, make sure I understand. So, Amarone, which is fantastic, but it's a, it's a very specialized wine. You, you pick the grapes. You let them dry a little bit. They get more concentrated, make a very rich, extracted wine.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
And then the other one you just mentioned is the-

Marilisa:
Palazzo De La Torre.

Doug:
Palazzo De La Torre, which another single vineyard.

Marilisa:
That use about 30%-

Doug:
30% dried grapes.

Marilisa:
Dried grape.

Doug:
But now with La Grola and what was the other one? Um-

Marilisa:
La Poja.

Doug:
La Poja.

Marilisa:
Fresh, freshly picked grapes.

Doug:
Freshly picked grapes. No, no drying at all? So the concentration came from better techniques in the vineyard.

Marilisa:
Exactly.

Doug:
Like what we try to do to get smaller berries, more concentration.

Marilisa:
Exactly. Exactly.

Doug:
And they did it.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
And the results were great?

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Oh cool.

Marilisa:
So, this was, uh, a kind of quality revolution.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marilisa:
For the Valpolicella area. And of course, the quality of the production in general, change a lot, and now Valpolicella is recognized as one of the best wine producing area of Italy.

Doug:
Boy, it's changed. Look what you started a revolution. Look what you did.

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
Um, but in the beginning, was, were there some issues with the DOC and the controlling because, uh, wasn't Valpolicella , weren't there rules that you had to have certain percentages of different grapes, dried grapes?

Marilisa:
Uh, you know, it, in Italy, the w- um the rules are quite complicated.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marilisa:
Because, we don't just have to use a specific grape variety. We have to use also a specific percentage.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
We don't have freedom.

Doug:
Right.

Marilisa:
And so, there was one grape variety that we didn't like. Which was Molinada.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And this is why we concentrate, we focus on the concept of single vineyard rather than just the DOC appellation.

Doug:
But, uh, did a- affect, did that affect how you could, had, could label the wines?

Marilisa:
Yes. In fact, La Grola, La Poja and Palozzo de la Torre, are IGT, and not DOC.

Doug:
And that's, was that difficult at first? Or you guys just did it?

Marilisa:
No. You know, when, when you know what you want to do when you have your own philosophy, you follow this, and so this brand, this three single vineyard became our answer. And we owned the entire property. So, we named the wine.

Doug:
Sure. And you focused on those.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
And help me again, IGT stands for?

Marilisa:
IGT was, uh, a classification that was introduced in 1992.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
Because at the beginning, there was only DOC and table wine.

Doug:
Okay. That's right.

Marilisa:
So, could you imagine the most prestigious wine that we make were named table wine. (laughs).

Doug:
Table wine.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
(laughs).

Marilisa:
But there was a journalist that invented the Super Tuscan

Doug:
The super-

Marilisa:
So, La Poja, La Grola, and Peltate de la Torre were our Super Venitian -

Doug:
Super (laughs).

Marilisa:
And the Government at one-

Doug:
So, the super Tuscans were down in-

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
And Tuscany. So you-

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
The super vinitians.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Perfect.

Marilisa:
The, the difference between the DOC and the IGT is that, uh, with the IGT, uh, the producer have more freedom to use the grape variety that they want. This is-

Doug:
Well, and, and to do what, I know what you wanna do, and I wanna do the same thing. And all our buddies in the business, we wanna make the best wines we can.

Marilisa:
Exactly. Exactly.

Doug:
And if, if and, and forget about the rules.

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
How were your neighbors when you were doing that? I mean, were they like, "You guys are crazy. You can't do this?"

Marilisa:
(laughs). Yes.

Doug:
Were they, or were they supportive and doing the same thing?

Marilisa:
I, you know, when, when my father introduced the, uh, double Grillo system-

Doug:
Yes.

Marilisa:
He moved from, uh, 2000 vines per acre to, uh, 4000 vines per acre.

Doug:
Wow.

Marilisa:
And, uh, one of his best friend ask him, "What are you doing at La Grola? Are you planting vines or lettuce?"

Doug:
(laughs).

Marilisa:
So he was very criticized. And I can imagine how he was, uh, affected by this, the judgment of his, uh, best friend. But he knew what he was doing. And so, I think that he was immediately recognize, recognized as one of the innovator of the Valpolicella .

Doug:
Good for him. 'Cause now, now little bit different selling Valpolicella in New York, right?

Marilisa:
Yes. Yeah. (laughs).

Doug:
Then some 25 years ago. And, 2003, you lost your brother Walter.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
That was tough. I know that was tough. He was-

Marilisa:
It was very, very difficult moment-

Doug:
Yeah.

Marilisa:
And, uh, because I just started with him, uh, in 2001. To purchase land in Bolgheri .

Doug:
In Bolgheri .

Marilisa:
And, uh, in 2002, we founded this new company Polgo al Tizor.

Doug:
Polgo al Tizor.

Marilisa:
So, after we planted the first 11 acres, Walter passed away.

Doug:
Oh.

Marilisa:
And so I was alone. I didn't have, uh, a lot of knowledge in viticulture, and so I had to decide how to go on with this, uh, uh, company that was at very, very beginning.

Doug:
Very beginning in Bolgheri , which is, is, uh, from Verona, that's quite a ways.

Marilisa:
It is, uh, 250 miles more or less.

Doug:
Yes, 250 miles. And 'cause Bolgheri is on the, on the ocean, but it's not in Tuscany.

Marilisa:
Yes. It is-

Doug:
So to the south.

Marilisa:
Is in the coast of Tuscany.

Doug:
Which is a great area, and we've stayed at your place there. And there's the grapes. And so you're, you're growing sa- mostly Sangiovese there?

Marilisa:
No.

Doug:
No?

Marilisa:
No. No Sangiovese at all. It was the first decision that Walter and I took when we went out to Bolgheri . No Sangiovese because Sangiovese is fantastic in the high altitude and in the center part of Tuscany-

Doug:
Tuscany, right.

Marilisa:
Where you have a calcareous soil.

Doug:
Right, the soil.

Marilisa:
But close to the sea, you have clay-

Doug:
Clay.

Marilisa:
You have sand.

Doug:
Right.

Marilisa:
And so, Sangiovese is not, uh, good in this area.

Doug:
So what did you plant?

Marilisa:
We planted Walter was, uh-

Doug:
Yeah.

Marilisa:
Looking at our neighbors.

Doug:
Right. Right.

Marilisa:
Uh, Cabernet Sauvginon

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marilisa:
Merlot, Cabernet Franc, Petite Verdot, and Syrah.

Doug:
Right.

Marilisa:
And, uh, we also planted Vermentino.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And so we make the Bolgheri right with the blend, the different grape variety.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marilisa:
And then we make this, uh, Vermentino, which I named Solo Sole.

Doug:
Solo Sole.

Marilisa:
Just sunshine.

Doug:
Just sunshine.

Marilisa:
Because, yes. The concentration that we have in the wine and the, uh characteristic of the wine come from the maturation and then the sun.

Doug:
That's, and it's beautiful wine. And Annette and I had it because your, your guest house there had a stash of your wine-

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
So we jumped into it. I have got to tell you, one of the best evenings I've had with my wife.

Marilisa:
Oh.

Doug:
You know, I've never told you this story was we were down there in Bolgheri at your place, and it was April. And Bolgheri , which I didn't realize. I'd been there once before in the summertime. And it was busy. It's, it's a, it's a resort. It's on the sea. Lots of resorts and beach hotels and, and I'd been there in the summer one time. It was very busy and fun. And we were there, and I was telling Annette, I said, oh this is gonna be great. It's on the sea, and it's busy. And we're walking around, and it was mid-April. It was like a ghost town 'cause summer season hadn't started. So nothing was going on. No restaurants were open or anything like that. It's like, what are we gonna do? And so there's a couple farm stands. We got some fresh asparagus and some pasta, and she made this fantastic, wonderful, simple meal in the kitchen of that guest house. And we sat there and lit a couple candles and had a fabulous dinner. So, it was one of our best nights.

Marilisa:
So you have to come back because now we have also a swimming pool.

Doug:
A swimming pool? Okay. (laughs).

Marilisa:
Under the stars.

Doug:
Oh, yeah.

Marilisa:
And, uh, don't you think that, uh, the strada Bolgherese has something similar with Silverado Trail?

Doug:
Yeah. That whole area.

Marilisa:
With this beautiful oak trees.

Doug:
Yes. It is. It's very similar.

Marilisa:
I, you know, I went to Silverado Trail before Bolgheri -

Doug:
(laughs).

Marilisa:
Because I went to, uh, California, I think the beginning of the '90s-

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And of course I fell in love with Napa Valley. But, when I went to Bolgheri , it was the 2001, the first year that I went there. I, it remember me the, the-

Doug:
You remember Napa?

Marilisa:
The beautiful oak, yes.

Doug:
The oak trees in Sienna, yeah we-

Marilisa:
And, uh, few months ago, there was this article in Wine Spectator, Bolgheri , Italy's Napa. And I think that it was very good concept to express what Bolgheri is.

Doug:
I've, when I've been there, the two times I've been there, there is a definite feeling of familiarity. And the Cabernet's, not what you're growing, but your neighbors there, they're delicious. And, um, it's, it's a similar climate. The light's different.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
The light in Italy's really different. Um, I can't describe it, but it, it's fascinating to me.

Marilisa:
And also you are close to the ocean. We are close to the Mediterranean Sea, so it's a little bit, uh-

Doug:
That, that climatic influence-

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
That's very important. But that's interesting about the Sangiovese. It's gotta be with that other soil anyway.

Marilisa:
Yes. Yes. And also, altitude.

Doug:
And, okay.

Marilisa:
And, uh, the red grape variety that we grow there, uh, in Bolgheri is very easy to achieve the, uh, sugar maturation.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marilisa:
But, uh, to achieve the phenolic maturation, you need to harvest a little bit late. It's the same in Napa?

Doug:
Yes. Uh, yeah. We have to wait. We have to wait longer sometimes because the grapes are ripe. They have sugar, but they're, the tannins-

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Are still really young and rough. They're not ripe.

Marilisa:
Yeah.

Doug:
And we have to let 'em hang just to kind of get, otherwise the wines turn out to be really hard, just kind of hard finishes.

Marilisa:
Yes. So maybe we have to share some experience also, with the red grape variety. (laughs).

Doug:
I think, I think need to come back to Italy.

Marilisa:
Oh no.

Doug:
(laughs).

Marilisa:
Or I need to come to your winery.

Doug:
You do need to come see me. So besides Bolgheri , you've got a great property in Maltacino. And it's called San Paulo, San Polo?

Marilisa:
San Polo.

Doug:
San Polo.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
And it's in Montalcino, which is-

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Good, wonderful. It's a Renaissance town, right, or Renaissance era. So tell me about that property.

Marilisa:
Uh, you know, when you go to Montalcino, you just fell in love, uh, with the place because is a, it's this beautiful hill overlooking 360 degrees.

Doug:
Right.

Marilisa:
And so, in 2007, there was this, uh, property that, uh, came in the market because the family that, uh, owned the property wanted to sell, and the family is from Verona.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And so they came to me and they ask if I wanted to buy the property.

Doug:
Uh huh.

Marilisa:
And, uh, it was property that was already established. It was not like, uh, Poggio al Tesoro, where I had to start from scratch.

Doug:
Start from the beginning. Okay.

Marilisa:
So planting the vineyard, um, uh, building the winery, etc.

Doug:
Building the winery, right.

Marilisa:
In, um, Montocino, everything was already set. The vineyard was planted. The winery was built. And, um, the reason why I decide to buy this property is because is located in one of the beautiful part of the hill in Montalcino. Montalcino is one of the largest municipality in Italy.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
So, from the north part, to the top, is, uh, 15 kilometers. And then to go down is 18 kilometers.

Doug:
Right.

Marilisa:
Which, uh-

Doug:
It's a big area, yes. It's a big area, yes.

Marilisa:
Means big. So we are very close to the original part of Monticino. Where the Sangiovese was planted. And, um, we, we have fantastic exposure. We have fantastic, uh, ventilation. And also, we have this, uh, galestro, which is the-

Doug:
The soil.

Marilisa:
The name of the, uh, Calcarrio soil. Galestro is the way that, in Tuscany they call Calcarrio soil.

Doug:
Which is that calcer soil, which is great for Sangiovese -

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Because it's, it's so well drained.

Marilisa:
Fantastic. Yeah.

Doug:
And, um, Sangiovese needs that.

Marilisa:
And, uh, so, this was the main reason. And then, the second reason was the way the winery was built. The winery was built according to the bio architecture. So-

Doug:
That's right. We had a great tour. Tell me again, there's, you've got some type of tunnels.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
And there's some type of ventilation thing going on.

Marilisa:
The tunneling is, uh, to have the air circulating-

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
In the right way inside the winery. And to keep the humidity from the earth. And then, uh, the winery is the, place where we, uh, age the wine is covered with the, uh, stone that absorb the excessive humidity, so everything is done respecting the environment.

Doug:
Got it.

Marilisa:
And, uh, thank to this, we started with the organic process in 2014. So now, Son Polo is organically certified. And we use recycled glass, we use recycled paper for the label. So, everything is-

Doug:
Everything's there.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
That's great.

Marilisa:
And this is a new, frontier I think for everybody.

Doug:
Yes. And everyone's going that way. That's great. Um-

Marilisa:
You too?

Doug:
That property, yes! As much as we can.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
We're solar powered and we, you know, compost all our cuttings -

Marilisa:
Same. Yes.

Doug:
Recycle our water, you know water in the cellar and use it to irrigate. Yeah. I mean everyone's going that way.

Marilisa:
It's very important to-

Doug:
Very important.

Marilisa:
Respect and to love the environment.

Doug:
To love, well if we don't take care of our environment-

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Then, our grapes aren't gonna grow very well, so, gotta do that.

Marilisa:
And we have to give a better world to the next generation.

Doug:
Yes. Got all our, all our kids.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
So the question I have about, 'cause I just was fascinated with that property. Tell me about the Villa de la Torre, which is this right in your home in Verona, and it's this, this wonderful old, I don't know is it, is it a castle? Is it a ruin? What's the history on that thing? It's fantastic.

Marilisa:
Villa de la Torre, uh, has been since my childhood, my lifetime dream.

Doug:
Really?

Marilisa:
Because I used to go to the Villa because I, I was a very good friend with a girl that was, uh, the daughter of the owner of the Villa.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And, uh, I used to go there, and, uh, in 2005, the villa came in the market, so they, they wanted to sell. My father purchase the land that surround Villa de la Torre.

Doug:
Okay. That's what I was curious about. 'Cause you have a wine name, named after that land, correct?

Marilisa:
Palazzo de la Torre?

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
Yes. Palazzo de la Torre is the wine that come from the vineyard that surround Villa de la Torre. So, my father in 1960, purchased the vineyard.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
But not the villa because the villa was not for sale.

Doug:
Well the, the villa was, was it a ruin basically or was it, no, yeah.

Marilisa:
Yes. It was, uh, abandoned-

Doug:
Abandoned.

Marilisa:
For a while.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And then, in 2005, it came in the market. And so I said, I want this property.

Doug:
Yeah. (laughs).

Marilisa:
Because, um, it was fantastic to have the entire property as it was in the Renaissance.

Doug:
Right.

Marilisa:
And, uh, it took three years, and finally in 2008, uh, we were able to purchase the, the villa.

Doug:
Wow.

Marilisa:
The villa is very important because it's one of the most important monument of the Italian Renaissance.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And, you know that Renaissance-

Doug:
Yes.

Marilisa:
Was, uh-

Doug:
Everything.

Marilisa:
Very important.

Doug:
The, the rebirth, everything.

Marilisa:
Last for 150 years.

Doug:
Right.

Marilisa:
But, uh, 80% of the architect that we have in Italy is be, because of the Renaissance.

Doug:
Because of that.

Marilisa:
So, Villa de la Torre was built in the Renaissance, but it is building very unique shape because it's built like a Roman Villa.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
With the courtyard in the center.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marilisa:
And the, the name of the courtyard is Perestillo.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And then the column that surround this courtyard, and then, there are these rooms that are, uh, designed, created with this fireplace that are like face of monster. You remember?

Doug:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Marilisa:
We had the fish monster. We have the lion.

Doug:
(laughs).

Marilisa:
We have the devil, and then we have the angel.

Doug:
Oh.

Marilisa:
And, um, it has become very important for Le Grini because it is the headquarter of our company, and is the place where we have, uh, tastings.

Doug:
So that's, so, 'cause since I was there, so it's now kind of fully restored.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Into your office headquarters?

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Oh great!

Marilisa:
And we have now 10 bedrooms.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And when visitors come, we want to give them the full experience of-

Doug:
Yes.

Marilisa:
The Renaissance.

Doug:
The Renaissance.

Marilisa:
So-

Doug:
Okay. I'll be back.

Marilisa:
Visiting the vin- yes.

Doug:
I'll be back. I'll be back. (laughs).

Marilisa:
Yes. (laughs). Visiting the vineyards. Uh, experiencing the food.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marilisa:
We have two chef that can also do cooking classes.

Doug:
That's great.

Marilisa:
And so, this is what we do at, uh, Villa de La Torre.

Doug:
I'm so happy for you 'cause I know that was a dream for so many years of yours. And it's just fascinating. Um-

Marilisa:
We, we learn from you guys also the hospitality because, uh, Napa is very famous for hospitality.

Doug:
Yeah, hospitality's important. Well, like in, in any business. And, um, you've gotta treat your customers as well as you can. That's, that's important.

Marilisa:
But I think especially in our business, don't you think so? When visitors come, they have to understand, that, uh, all the work that is behind a bottle of wine.

Doug:
I agree. Yeah and it's important to, to tell them that. To somehow show them. Because when we travel on the road, you and I, we do this a lot, sometimes I don't think that comes through. It's just like, "Hey, here you are and I am. And we've got this great bottle of wine, and it tastes good." And we, we might say, you know we might kind of lead them to believe it's just really romantic. I think some people come out to Napa sometimes and they, they, they, we just kind of sit around and drink wine all day. But it's like, no. (laughs).

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
We gotta, growing grapes, and we're up at 5:00 or 6:00 in the morning and-

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Harvest we're, we, you know sweat it out with the weather, you know, rain or cold or heat.

Marilisa:
We have a lot, we have a lot of challenge.

Doug:
A lot of challenges. But, um-

Marilisa:
But it's so exciting.

Doug:
It is.

Marilisa:
I think that we do the best job in the world. Don't you think so?

Doug:
I, it's, yeah.

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
I mean I've been doing this a long time, and it's, you know, I get up every day raring to go. Except unless I've, I've a late night like I had last night.

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
But, (laughs), but I'm firing up again. Um, so, again, speaking of travel, how, I'm just curious. Uh, how much are you, how much of your wine do you sell in Italy, and how much is exported?

Marilisa:
We sell, um, more or less 20% in Italy-

Doug:
In Italy.

Marilisa:
And the rest abroad.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And, uh-

Doug:
Is the US your biggest-

Marilisa:
Yes. US is our-

Doug:
Yes. US is your biggest. Yeah.

Marilisa:
Market number one.

Doug:
I think you should move some of that sales somewhere else. To another country. That way, I, I can sell more Shafer in this United States.

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
You know what, you know what?

Marilisa:
Oh, no. No.

Doug:
[Laughs].

Marilisa:
I think don't, I cannot compete with you, Doug.

Doug:
Well, you know, don't you find, 'cause I, I, you know sometimes I'm on airplanes and talking to people in other industries, and, and they'll, they'll say, well what's your, who's your competition? You know? And it's like, and I, I'm a little befuddled sometimes because like, you know what other winery in Napa is your competition, Doug? And I'm like going, well I don't really think about that.

Marilisa:
Yeah.

Doug:
And they go, "What do you mean?"

Marilisa:
Colleague.

Doug:
I, I go, well, it's, I, we're all doing fine, and we all kind of-

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
You know, support each other, and gee, you know Shafer might be on that list at that restaurant, but maybe not over there, but, over there is my buddy here or an Allegrini wine, which makes me happy to see.

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
That's what I love about this. You know, it's like, oh, Marilisa's got her wine here. Cool. Um, do you agree? I never feel, I never feel that.

Marilisa:
I, I totally agree with you.

Doug:
Yeah.

Marilisa:
I totally agree. I, I don't feel the competition. I think that in the world, there is place for everybody.

Doug:
Yeah.

Marilisa:
And I'm only upset when I have one wine from my area that is not good. This is-

Doug:
Me too. I, yeah, I know what you're saying because, it, when a, a neighbor-

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Has a wine that's not as good as it could be. It's not my business to tell him what to do, him or her, but, but that, that hurts my area. That hurts me.

Marilisa:
Yes. Exactly.

Doug:
That hurts Napa Valley. That hurts, you know from your kind, it hurts Valpolicella . Um, so it's almost like you wanna, you kind of wanna gently say, "Hey, um, you wanna sit? Can I give you a couple of tips on this one?" Or, but we can't. But what's great about our business is the customer, the customer is the barometer and the customer today compared to 30 years ago, they know their wines.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
They know good wines. And if, if someone makes a wine that's not as good, people don't buy it.

Marilisa:
Yeah.

Doug:
So that's a, that regulates it.

Marilisa:
Oh, there is much more knowledge by the customer.

Doug:
Yeah. Yeah.

Marilisa:
Definitely.

Doug:
Good. Um, next generation? 'Cause it's the Allegrini family, six generations?

Marilisa:
(laughs). Yes.

Doug:
What, what's the next, who's, who's coming up?

Marilisa:
Uh, you know, uh, I have one brother Franco.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And Franco has, uh, three boys. So, one of his, uh, sons is already in the company.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And he's selling wine part in Italy and part, uh, abroad because we want him to have the full experience of the different, uh, problem or opportunities.

Doug:
Sure. Challenges. Yeah.

Marilisa:
And then, um, I have two daughters.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marilisa:
And, uh, my first daughter, Carallota-

Doug:
Carallota.

Marilisa:
Is, uh, guess what?

Doug:
No, what's she doing?

Marilisa:
Medical doctor.

Doug:
(laughs).

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
She's the medic- so she was-

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
It must have been genetic.

Marilisa:
But, uh-

Doug:
That's fantastic.

Marilisa:
She's very interested in the wine business.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
So I'm sure that one day she will find a way to combine-

Doug:
Good.

Marilisa:
Her profession with the wine industry.

Doug:
So you let her, you let her go to medical school?

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
You were contributing (laughs)-

Marilisa:
I was very pleased and very honored, and I was smiling when she said I want to be a doctor.

Doug:
You know, your, your dad is up, your dad's up there smiling somewhere too, I bet.

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
That's great.

Marilisa:
And my second daughter, uh, she just finished master in philosophy.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And you know that with philosophy, you learn how to think.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marilisa:
And not just what to think.

Doug:
How to think.

Marilisa:
And I really notice that, uh, she, she's very smart in terms of marketing, strategic marketing.

Doug:
Marketing? Good.

Marilisa:
And, uh, she just finished. So I want her to do some experience abroad, and, um, I hope that she will come to the United States to have an experience because, uh, as I said, I learn everything from this market, and so I'm sure it'll be a very good learning experience from her.

Doug:
Get a job. Get a job with the importer or something like that.

Marilisa:
And then, yes.

Doug:
Good. Yeah.

Marilisa:
And then I think that after one year, she will come back, uh, to the company, family company, and she will manage the marketing because I don't know for you, but for us, uh, marketing is a combination of differencing-

Doug:
It's a lot of things.

Marilisa:
Gather, sells, hospitality-

Doug:
Yeah.

Marilisa:
Promotion.

Doug:
Yes.

Marilisa:
Communication.

Doug:
So- social media.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
All the-

Marilisa:
Social media, yes.

Doug:
Right. Well, good. Well, if she's over in the United States, and she gets out to Napa, we, please be sure she comes to see me.

Marilisa:
Oh, of course. (laughs).

Doug:
Yeah? Yeah. I wanna, I wanna see her and, and I can, uh, maybe I can give her a few tips. I, you know, I've got a few tips in my, my satchel here. Um-

Marilisa:
And for you, the next generation?

Doug:
It's, the next generation, if they're all d- they're all doing their own thing. And, uh, successfully and happily. And, and I'm happy about that. I'm, it's, uh, there's lots of different kids in the next generation, and they're all, you know, in their 20s, 30s and doing different things, and we'll just have to see what happens.

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
I've got a long way to go to get to catch up to you, six generations, but we'll see what happens. Anything new coming, coming from you guys? Any new wines? New projects? New properties?

Marilisa:
Y- yes. Uh, there is something new.

Doug:
I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. (laughs).

Marilisa:
(laughs). We recently you know the Allegrini is focused on the production of red wines.

Doug:
Yes.

Marilisa:
Valpolicella .

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marilisa:
But there is, uh, one area that is, uh, new in nearby. Which is, uh, Lugana.

Doug:
Lugana, okay.

Marilisa:
And Lugana is very close to Lake Garda.

Doug:
Lake Garda, right.

Marilisa:
It's located in the southern part of Lake Garda.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
It's not yet very popular in America.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
But, uh, is very popular in Europe. And recently, we purchase a large property. Is, uh, 120 acres.

Doug:
Wow, that's, that's great.

Marilisa:
And, uh, we planted, we planted half. And so in the near future, we will add this white wine-

Doug:
White wine.

Marilisa:
To the red Allegrini wine production.

Doug:
Oh, to all your reds. That's fantastic. What, can I ask what grape? What, or what are the-

Marilisa:
It's a kind of a Trebbiano .

Doug:
Oh, Trebbiano .

Marilisa:
Trebbiano is, uh, typical wine-

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marilisa:
From Tuscany. But is also planted in Suave.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Marilisa:
And is distributed in Suave. And the difference between Trebbiano from Tuscany is that Trebbiano de Suave has lower production.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And so Trebbiano is the most important grape variety also in, uh, Lugana. It's called La Calli Turbiana.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
But, uh, is the same, uh,-

Doug:
But it's the, versus Trebbiano .

Marilisa:
Is a different clone of Trebbiano de Suave.

Doug:
That sounds exciting. That sounds fun.

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Good for you. I knew, I knew you had something. I knew it. That's great.

Marilisa:
But, uh, this is a project that we will, uh, give to our kids.

Doug:
Okay.

Marilisa:
And so we want them to be very involved in this.

Doug:
That's smart.

Marilisa:
And in fact, they're the properties owned by them.

Doug:
It's owned by them. So it's their-

Marilisa:
Yes.

Doug:
Okay. Let them go. Good for you. Marilisa, thank you so much for coming today. It's great to see you.

Marilisa:
Thank you.

Doug:
It's, I've, I've, I knew there was more to your story than I, I knew before, so I appreciate it very much.

Marilisa:
Thank you very much, Doug. And I will invite you one day to do, uh, podcasts in Italy. So you will tell to the-

Doug:
Please do.

Marilisa:
Italian consumers.

Doug:
Please do. And make sure you say I can only record in Italy. You have to come to Italy to do this, Doug.

Marilisa:
(laughs).

Doug:
And that way, I can, I'll see you there.

Marilisa:
Remember that you are always welcome to Villa de la Torre, Polla Tezzoro, and San Pollo.

Doug:
Thank you. I'll see you again.

Marilisa:
Thank you.

Doug:
Be good.

Marilisa:
Thank you very much.