Kyle MacLachlan56 MINUTES

A new podcast series from Doug Shafer about the people behind the food and wine you love.

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Doug Shafer and Kyle MacLachlan

Not long out of college Kyle MacLachlan was cast as the lead in the 1984 film, Dune, launching a career, that’s included film and TV roles in Blue Velvet, The Doors, Twin Peaks, Portlandia, and more.

In the early 2000s, wanting to reconnect with his Washington-state roots, he launched his wine brand Pursued By Bear, producing delicious Cabernet, Syrah, and most recently a Rosé. Enjoy!

For more visit: pursuedbybearwine.com


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FULL TRANSCRIPT

 

Doug:
Hey, everybody. Doug Shafer back with The Taste. We are still in New York on our journey of taking The Taste to the east coast. Here today with a person who I think I can best des ... best ... best describe as actor, wine maker, friend.

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
Kyle Mc ... Kyle MacLachlan. Kyle, good ...

Kyle:
Thanks ...

Doug:
... to see you.

Kyle:
... Doug. And you didn't say raconteur.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
I would appreciate that.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
Very, very nice. (Laughs).

Doug:
Kyle and I have known each other for a few years and and I met him quite unexpectedly at a winemaker dinner.

Kyle:
Hm.

Doug:
Not sure if he remembers it.

Kyle:
I do.

Doug:
And, I was ... I was the wine maker so I was doing my thing, telling my silly jokes and ...

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
... and whatnot, and, you know, part way through dinner I got up to walk around tables and table hop ...

Kyle:
Hm.

Doug:
... 'cause people like that, and it's a good ... good excuse to get up from my table and ...

Kyle:
Right. (Laughs).

Doug:
... and run around. And I approached this table and there was ... it was, oh, five or six people and seven or eight chairs and, uh, there was this guy ... guy at the table and I think someone had said, "Oh, that guy is that guy." And I didn't know who that guy was.

Kyle:
Right.

Doug:
It was Kyle, but he was supposed to ... He was supposedly somebody, which I'd found out ...

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
... yeah, he's somebody.

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
But-

Kyle:
In his ... in his own mind. (Laughs).

Doug:
Has ... in ... we're ... but as I approached the table, this guy looked at me and caught my eyes.

Kyle:
Hm.

Doug:
And there was a ... a person next to him who was ... it was very apparent was basically all over him. She was ...

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
... like not ... not physically, just, uh, uh, talking your ear off.

Kyle:
Oh.

Doug:
And you gave me the look. The look was like ... It wasn't desperation.

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
It wasn't help. It was like ... It was kind of like, "Man, if you could help me out, I'd be really nice."

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
(Laughs). So I ...

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
There was an empty chair on the other side of him, so I sat down. He immediately turns to me and says ...

Kyle:
Right.

Doug:
... "Hi, I'm Kyle." I said, "Hi, I'm Doug." (Laughs).

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
(Laughs). And he ... he said something like, "Let's just talk for a while."

Kyle:
Oh, yeah.

Doug:
I said, "Cool." And-

Kyle:
Off we went.

Doug:
And um ... and we had a wonderful conversation.

Kyle:
Yeah. I remember.

Doug:
Do you remember that?

Kyle:
I do. I remember it.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
I ... I ... When you were talking, I said ... I real ... I have, um, an image of, you know, in ... in Road Runner how he would raise up a little sign?

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kyle:
And on it would be written something, and I'd ... I think I raised up a little sign that said, "Save me." (Laughs).

Doug:
Save me. And it ... But it ... It was ... it was-

Kyle:
And there you were. (Laughs).

Doug:
It was great, (laughs), because, um-

Kyle:
Aw.

Doug:
The look spoke volumes. And, uh - but getting to you, so actor, wine maker, friend.

Kyle:
Hm.

Doug:
So let's start in the beginning.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Yakima, Washington.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Born and raised.

Kyle:
Yep, yeah. Born and raised. Uh, we lived there my entire life. Uh, graduated in 1977 from Eisenhower Senior High School, went to school at the U, where you're son-

Doug:
U ... U ... UW?

Kyle:
UW, yeah, UW.

Doug:
Husky.

Kyle:
Yeah, UW in Seattle. Exactly. And, um ... and it was kind of ... wa ... anxious to get out of eastern Washington, as you can imagine. At that time, there wasn't a whole lot going on in eastern Washington, unless you were a farmer or a rancher, fruit rancher. And, uh, I had set my sights on Seattle and ... and the acting thing, and off I went and, um, you know, come few years later, let's say, you know, early 2000s, I find myself back in Yakima, back in Washington.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
Thinking about, uh, starting a, you know, a winery. Um, or at least starting with a brand.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
Um, and, uh, really fun to go home in ... and see the community and the environment and the ... and the geography in a completely different way.

Doug:
But as a kid, I'm gonna roll back to as kid.

Kyle:
Right.

Doug:
So you've got ... You had a couple brothers, I think?

Kyle:
Two brothers. Two younger brothers.

Doug:
And, um-

Kyle:
Yeah, real close in age. So-

Doug:
Got it. So growing up, it was farm time?

Kyle:
You know, we were ... Dad as a stock broker.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
We lived in what would be considered, I guess, you know, idealic suburbia.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
Uh, you know, green lawn. We actually grew up in ... in a development that used to be an orchard, so-

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
Our ... our home was surrounded by apple trees that had been there. And ... and turns out, um, heritage varietals, so they were Wine Saps and Pippins and had couple of ...

Doug:
Neat.

Kyle:
... Bartlett pear trees and my dad was kind of a gentleman farmer.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
And ... and grew things. He had a green thumb and so we grew up, you know, with a lot of vegetable garden, flower garden, growing things, very comfortable in that world.

Doug:
I'm assuming you had you guys ... three boys out working in-

Kyle:
Oh, yeah. We were cheap labor. (Laughs).

Doug:
Cheap labor. Eh, my father did the same thing. I had two brothers. (Laughs).

Kyle:
Oh, yeah. (Laughs).

Doug:
I know that drill. (Laughs).

Kyle:
Yeah. We, yeah ... we ... and we turn ... actually, we turned the knowledge of all the ... all the days, mowing a lawn ...

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
... and edging and trimming and turning the garden and harvest, etc., we turned that into a small business, you know, for high school and-

Doug:
Oh, cool.

Kyle:
Then made some money. Yeah.

Doug:
Cool.

Kyle:
Mowing lawns in the neighborhood. You know? So-

Doug:
Nice.

Kyle:
Yeah, it was crazy. I mean, I ... we ... we did things with a lawnmower. You know, you're like-

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
First of all, you're pouring gasoline into a hot lawn ... engine. You know-

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
You wondering, get ... really how powerful is the motor when you pull and the spark goes?

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
I can't be that strong, and of course, you know, your hand goes numb because it's ... it's a strong spark.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
On that spark plug. (Laughs). Oh, yeah, stuff like that. Rotary mower, putting our hand in there, getting the grass out.

Doug:
Oh.

Kyle:
Oh, yeah.

Doug:
I remember the rotary mowers.

Kyle:
Yeah, sure.

Doug:
You put your hand on the spark plug to see how strong it was.

Kyle:
Yeah, yeah.

Doug:
Yeah, geez.

Kyle:
Yeah, that was just 'cause-

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
We were kind of idiots, but you know.

Doug:
Yeah. What's that young male brain development thing?

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
It just doesn't kick in til-

Kyle:
Not until about-

Doug:
20.

Kyle:
well, 25, maybe? (Laughs).

Doug:
Maybe 40, 45. (Laughs).

Kyle:
Maybe 40, I'm still waiting ...

Doug:
Yeah. (Laughs).

Kyle:
... for mine to kick in.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
I'm ... I'm ... I'm up there. Anyway-

Doug:
Alright, so ... But you said that you went to UW ...

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
... in Seattle.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
University of Washington, and stud ... Did ... did the acting thing kick in, in high school?

Kyle:
Yeah. So I was ...

Doug:
Okay, so how was-

Kyle:
... doing plays in high school

Doug:
You were doing plays?

Kyle:
And, uh, it was cool to do the plays. I did a ... There as a spring musical and a fall play. It was cool to do the plays, but it wasn't cool to take the drama class. So I never took drama class, I just did the musical and the plays and that was the fun.

Doug:
Well, how could you be in the play if you weren't in the drama class?

Kyle:
Well, you just auditioned, and, you know, if you make it, you make it. You know, you're good enough, they give it to you. (Laughs). I was also in the choir, which was a cool thing to do back in my school. So we were affiliated with the performance, especially with the high school musical 'cause they ... they basically drafted all the people that were in choir to perform on stage. So we did Oklahoma, we did My Fair Lady, we did Anything Goes, you know, full on.

Doug:
I ... I did, uh, in Chicago, I was in high school for two and a half years in high school.

Kyle:
Right.

Doug:
I was in choir.

Kyle:
Oh, yeah. Okay.

Doug:
We did Flower Drum Song.

Kyle:
Sure.

Doug:
Um, Annie Get Your Gun.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
But I had a real-

Kyle:
Those are old chestnuts. (Laughs).

Doug:
I had a real challenge because I ... I was on the basketball team and the school I was in ...

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
... was like you're a jock.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Or you're in the arts.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
And you don't go both ways.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
And so if I had to-

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
And the choir teacher, she was great, but she was tougher than a coach.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
If you missed a practice, you're out.

Kyle:
Oh, wow.

Doug:
You're not in the musical.

Kyle:
That is tough.

Doug:
Which I really dug doing the musicals.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
So the basketball coach would never understand that. He'd give me a hard time.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
And then if I, you know, had to miss basketball or basketball for her, she would not-

Kyle:
Yeah, you were totally like ...

Doug:
It was the same.

Kyle:
... caught in the middle.

Doug:
It was ... it was horrible.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
Yeah, you were caught in the middle. I had a little bit of that.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
I ... I ... intermural basketball that I wanted to play. I was actually kind of not doing one of the plays and the two leading girl ... women, girls, I think girls at the time I guess.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
Convinced me otherwise and I saw the light. They, you know. (Laughs).

Doug:
Atta boy. (Laughs)

Kyle:
(Laughs). Do I wanna be hanging out with sweaty guys playing basketball, which I wasn't really good at? Or do I wanna be on stage hanging out with really two lovely ...

Doug:
Lovely gals, and-

Kyle:
... ladies. Yeah, lovely gals.

Doug:
Having a good time, flirting.

Kyle:
That was my decision right there.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
Yeah. I think I made the right choice.

Doug:
I think it ... smart guy.

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
Smart guy.

Kyle:
I wouldn't go that far, but ... (Laughs).

Doug:
So, alright-

Kyle:
Yeah, so-

Doug:
You got to ... you got to UW.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Um, and you're drinking beer? You're drinking wine? Or you're drinking it all?

Kyle:
I'm drinking wine. No.

Doug:
You're drinking wine.

Kyle:
You know, even in high school ... I ... I ... I just ... beer, I was like just wasn't my thing and I didn't know ... you know, I've certainly seen the error of my ways now, but at the time, I just ... And when I went to Seattle, you know, it was cold there.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
I was like, "Why you drinking beer? It's freezing." You know what I mean?

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
I mean, that ... I ... I got it in the hot summer day.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
But I was like what's ... what's the don ... what's the deal. So said, "I really ... This wine tastes really good to me." So I was drinking wine. Granted, it wasn't very good wine.

Doug:
Sure.

Kyle:
But I had started kind of already, kind of down that path, 'cause, you know, in college, you gotta drink something, so I thought, "Well, I'll drink wine. I'll be the odd wine drinking guy in my fraternity." You know?

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
And that's kind of how I (laughs)-

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
That's how I was known. Um, and-

Doug:
He's the wine guy.

Kyle:
Yeah, he's the wine guy. Okay. He doesn't know anything about it, but he always seems to order it. So, um ... And that pretty much carried me through, um, soph ... I was in coll ... college, in school for five years.

Doug:
Got it.

Kyle:
I had two years of kind of figuring out what I wanted to do and three years of acting training and, um, that was it. You know? I pursued the wine drinking thing, and then when I, got out and was working, um, you know, you can begin to afford a little bit better wine.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
And, uh ... So then the process of learning starts. You know?

Doug:
So that's ... Acting thing, how were ... how were your folks about that? They supportive?

Kyle:
They were, oh ... Yeah. They were very-

Doug:
Nice.

Kyle:
They were. I would say they were very supportive. They were supportive. My dad-

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
He wanted me to take an economics course, which I did.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
Hopeless, just hopeless. It ... I did ... I did ... I just could not fig ... I didn't understand, I couldn't fig ... I didn't ... My brain just did not work that way. Now, of course, I wish that'd I spent a little more time ...

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
... in the business world, or at least trying to figure it out, 'cause of what I'm doing with the wine.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kyle:
But at the time, everything I tried just sort of pushed me right back to this thing that I really enjoyed and I knew that I was good at, but I really had no idea how you went forward with an ...

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
... acting education.

Doug:
So how do you do it? You come out, you've got a degree in acting. So-

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
You ... you-

Kyle:
I mean, and it was severe. We were trained through Repertory Theater. I mean, I ... that was the whole program and it was part of a 10 school, um, organization called, The League of Professional Training Programs, and they would have small ... You know, my class was 13 people and that was the graduating class and so we were ... We were all trained, quite intensely in ... in, you know, working in the theater. That's what we were gonna do.

Doug:
Traditional theater?

Kyle:
Traditional theater, yeah.

Doug:
Shakespeare and whatnot.

Kyle:
Shakespeare, started out, I ... I ... Actually, my first job was at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival in Ashland.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
And worked there for a season. Uh, did Romeo there, and Octavius and Julius Caesar, and the boy in Henry V, really a nice first season, and, um-

Doug:
I mean, right out of school, you got the lead ...

Kyle:
Right out of school.

Doug:
... roles.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
You were good.

Kyle:
Yeah, I ... I don't know if I was good or ...

Doug:
No. I don't-

Kyle:
... if I just fit the costume.

Kyle:
I don't wanna sound like I'm sur ... surprised. I apologize for that.

Doug:
No, no, no. You're right.

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
Your surprise is absolutely ...

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
... very ... val ... valid. I was, um ... I was a kind of a ... kind of a cutup in school and I wasn't very good. You know, I didn't take it that seriously. I mean ...

Doug:
You were.

Kyle:
... I wanted to.

Doug:
You weren't a cut up. Come on, you're a serious guy.

Kyle:
Yeah. Yeah. I'm a ser ... Yeah, yeah. So you ... we're kind of cut from the same cloth I'm afraid.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kyle:
So, but I think deep, deep down, I ... I ... I ... I knew I really wanted it and I knew that I had talent. You know, I knew that. This is something I'm good at.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
I recognize that. How good? I don't know.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
You know? At ... That's a question you never answer, I think, but, uh, it was enough to get me, uh, down the road, you know, to Ashland and ... and I worked there for a season. I like to think that the ... the director who actually hired me for the role in Romeo was huge fan of Nicolas Nickleby.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
And at the time, Roger Reese was starring in Nicolas Nickleby and we actually have a similar ... We ... we ... we resemble each and I think he saw me and said, "Oh, he's the guy like Roger Reese in ... in Nicolas Nickleby." Remember that pl ... play from a thousand years ...

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
... ago?

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
He said, "I'll hire him for Romeo." And I think that's how I got the job. So, um, but anyway, that started it and then, uh, worked a little bit in Seattle, went back to do a play there.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
And, uh ... And I was gu ... I was cast. I was kind of plucked from, not even relative obscurity, from total obscurity when I was up in Seattle working in this play and I auditioned for Dune and that's how I got the role in Dune.

Doug:
That was your first movie.

Kyle:
First movie, yeah.

Doug:
So you ... so you ... The just .. Someone-

Kyle:
And almost my last. (Laughs).

Doug:
Someone ... No. (Laughs).

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
Oh. Come on.

Kyle:
That's another story. (Laughs).

Doug:
No, we're not gonna go there. Come on.

Kyle:
(Laughs). Okay.

Doug:
Um, we could talk about a couple wines I've made 30 years ago.

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
But we're not gonna talk about those either.

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
Um-

Kyle:
Oh, we all have our struggles.

Doug:
So, but you're ... you're not in L.A., but you get the role in Seattle.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
So someone found you?

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Or-

Kyle:
Yeah, casting agent. It was a ... They were doing a ... what they ... what they called back then, a nationwide search.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
And they went to major cities and, um, there were, uh, a ... a couple of casting agents that were sort of traveling around Chicago and they went to the Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco, Dallas.

Doug:
Interesting.

Kyle:
And when they came to Seattle I was working in the theater at that time, right place, right time, and the casting agent just called around to different theaters and said, "Who fits this kind of ... "

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
You know, "This is what we're looking for."

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
And a couple of the people, 'cause I was there working in the community, they said, "Well, Kyle's that age and about that right, so here's his number." And that's how it happened.

Doug:
They still do that? People-

Kyle:
I don't think so.

Doug:
'Cause I think everybody goes to L.A.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
And does the whole thing.

Kyle:
I think that they find ... They find their people in other ways, but, um ... But at the time, um, that was ... that's how it happened. You know?

Doug:
That's how it happened.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
And so the next thing you know, you're what? Filming in L.A. or-

Kyle:
Yeah. So I go at screen test in L.A. It was one of the nice stories is, I screen tested in L.A. for David Lynch.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
And I'd never screen tested. I didn't know what a camera was, I'd never been in front of the camera before, and, um, he was just really kind and ... and supportive and ... and ... and optimistic and ... he kind of just helped me through the, uh, you know ... the whole screen. I mean, I did the work, but I ... he helped me through the screen test, and when I got back to my hotel that night, I was staying at the Beverly Garland Holiday Inn, I'll never forget.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
(Laughs). Still there, in fact. I stayed there. I got back to my room and there was bottle of Lynch-Bage on the table, Bordeaux, which I'd never ...

Doug:
You're kidding.

Kyle:
... had before.

Doug:
You're kidding me.

Kyle:
No. And he'd sent that over as a thank you and I think a gesture of goodwill, you know, for putting me through what I ... what he ... what ... what we went through ...

Doug:
Wow.

Kyle:
... for the screen test. It was a lot of emotional stuff, and then, uh, so that was the ... and that was it. So ... and then, he had found ...

Doug:
Lynch-Bage.

Kyle:
... Lynch-Bage. He found it Lynch-Bage because his name is David Lynch, of course.

Doug:
Got it.

Kyle:
And he saw it on a menu. I think he was probably flying, you know, across ... international or something, like were serving Lynch-Bage back in the day when they did that kind, (laugh), of ...

Doug:
Right, right.

Kyle:
... kind of thing. (Laughs).

Doug:
Back in the day when it was, you know, $20.00 a bottle or something.

Kyle:
Yeah, yeah. Exactly. And, uh, so it couldn't have been more than ... It was probably a $70.00 or $80.00 or something, maybe. You know, a nice vintage. But anyway, that was, uh ... and that was my introduction to Bordeaux and to David and the shared enjoyment of red wine that we ... we both have.

Doug:
Well, not just ... Okay, 'cause you guys, obviously, enjoy wine together.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
But a ... a great professional career together too.

Kyle:
Yeah. We've had some.

Doug:
Lot of successes.

Kyle:
Yeah. He's a dear, dear friend, certainly a director and we've ... we've done some ... we've done some really special things together. Yeah.

Doug:
What, you know ... You're trained in traditional acting. I don't know anything about it, but, you know, there's no ... no camera training that way.

Kyle:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Doug:
'Cause you just mentioned that. It caught ... caught my ear.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
It's like so all of sudden, you're doing a screen test in front of cameras.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Where you've had no training.

Kyle:
No, I had no idea.

Doug:
That must have been-

Kyle:
That was weird.

Doug:
'Cause like you probably wanna look at the camera. You're not supposed to look at the camera, and I mean-

Kyle:
Well, in one scene, I actually had to look down the barrel of the camera and I was like, "That's weird." And I said, "I don't think I can do this." 'Cause I'm looking at a lens and I'm kind ... And even in to ... now, you'd never really ... You know, once in a while, you're doing an aside if it calls for it, you know, in the ... in the script, but that rarely happens. So here, I was doing a whole speech right down the lens of the camera. You know, if I'm working with another actress, I'll ... Okay, I kind of understand ...

Doug:
You can-

Kyle:
... that. Camera's over there shooting, you know, a ... a ... um-

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
Whatever re ... reality moment we're trying to create here.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
You know, in our little situation, um, but yeah, looking straight down the lens was ... was crazy, and the cam ... camera was huge.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
I remember looking at it, going, "This is giant."

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
You know, now, today, you can shoot on an ...

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
... iPhone.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
iPhone 10. I worked with Soderbergh and shot the movie on an iPhone 10.

Doug:
No.

Kyle:
Oh, yeah. We had special lenses, but it's-

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
It's ... it's literally an iPhone, bang, and he'd stick it on the table and he would be shooting the film right now and you wouldn't even know it was there almost and it was crazy.

Doug:
That's wild.

Kyle:
Yeah. It was cool.

Doug:
That's cool.

Kyle:
So that started it and that took me to Mexico City.

Doug:
Mexico City?

Kyle:
Yeah, we shot in Mexico City.

Doug:
That's where you shot Dune.

Kyle:
Mm.

Doug:
Wow.

Kyle:
Mm. Yeah. Yeah, it was wild.

Doug:
And you were how old?

Kyle:
I'm first out of school, I'm not even a year out of school, so I'm 22.

Doug:
20, 23.

Kyle:
23, yeah. Yeah, I know.

Doug:
Oh.

Kyle:
And I felt like I, oh, I kind of missed the window. Should have been like 19 or 20. (Laughs).

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
I'm done for years.

Doug:
You know something? Isn't that funny?

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
'Cause I've got, well, kids. They're, you know, late 20s now, early 30s, but I remember a couple of em are like, you know, at 21, 22, just like, "Dad, I gotta ... I'm not where I need to be."

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
I said, "God, relax, man."

Kyle:
Yeah, yeah.

Doug:
You can just, you know ... you'll ... you'll get there.

Kyle:
I think that's why we're here, right? To sort of help ...

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
... the next ... the other generations. You, you're gonna be fine.

Doug:
You're fine.

Kyle:
(Laughs). Yeah.

Doug:
Just take it easy. You know.

Kyle:
Yeah, yeah.

Doug:
It's okay.

Kyle:
Loads of time.

Doug:
Take a little time. Enjoy this.

Kyle:
Yep. Yeah.

Doug:
Oh, so meanwhile-

Kyle:
Oh.

Doug:
Career's taking off.

Kyle:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Doug:
TV shows, movies, on and on and on, but you're still in the wine thing, and you start ... you start visiting Napa.

Kyle:
I do.

Doug:
In the '80s.

Kyle:
Yeah, which is what you do. If you're living in ...

Doug:
If-

Kyle:
... Los Angeles and, um, you have a girlfriend and you want to go some place with magic and fun and, you know, kind of ... I mean, it's beautiful up there.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
So-

Doug:
Let's go to-

Kyle:
Yeah, you fly up or drive up, in our case.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
You drive up 'cause you can't afford a plane ... You can afford gas at the time, but you can't afford a plane ticket. So you drive up and you-

Doug:
That's true. You could afford gas then.

Kyle:
Yeah. (Laughs).

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
Back in those days. And you just drive around and kind of stumble in to whatever. You ... you go to the Beaulieu Vineyard, and-

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kyle:
And you taste some Georges Latour, which is very expensive, but you, you know, you splurge on a bottle, something, and, uh, you go to Rutherford Hill, you go to wherever you can kind of ... tasting room open. You know?

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
And you start trying stuff and, you know, we stayed at ... We stayed at ... I remember we stayed at the Auberge du Soleil, which was pretty nice.

Doug:
Okay. Yeah.

Kyle:
So we ... we were doing okay. We had enough-

Doug:
That's ... that's romantic.

Kyle:
Yeah. It's really beautiful.

Doug:
Perfect.

Kyle:
Still there, and ... and ... and beautiful. Um, and that was ... those were some of the early visits to Napa. We ... You'd drive up through San Francisco. I remember staying at the Pelican Inn.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
Um, in, um-

Doug:
Over in the, um, sou ...

Kyle:
Mount ... Mount Tam, or that area.

Doug:
Yeah, it's on the Mount Tam on the coast.

Kyle:
Um, really super romantic and, um ... and then you ... you know, we just kind of discovered that area and Napa was part of that journey. You know?

Doug:
Nice.

Kyle:
And, um ... and so ... obviously so different than Los Angeles and it's cool. It was cool to be in a place where there ... This was Napa, you know. It was like, "Wow." It had a great ... It had resonance, you know, and kind of a vibrancy and we were doing something special. So I was already drawn-

Doug:
You were, ah-

Kyle:
Certainly drawn to that kind of environment. You know? I mean, making something and-

Doug:
Yeah, it sounds like you had more than just the ... It was more than just the get away for a ... a really cool to go for a weekend, 'cause you were ... you were into the wine.

Kyle:
I was.

Doug:
You were checking it out.

Kyle:
I was very in to it. Remember, I ... I wandered into ... I think it was the St. Helena Wine Merchant or-

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
It was a different ... It was not the one that's in St. Helena. It was actually on the road, kind of where, I think, the, um, Dean & DeLuca is now.

Doug:
Yeah, it was the, um ... there was a wine shop there.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
I know the corner.

Kyle:
Remember the type of warehouse kind of place.

Doug:
It's ... it's right by Englewood Avenue. Yeah.

Kyle:
Okay.

Doug:
Right by the gas station.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Right across the street from Satui.

Kyle:
Okay. Yeah.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
Right in there.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
And I was ... stumbled in there and I st ... and I said, "What should I buy." And he said, he just ... I remember this. He bought ... he sent ... he, uh ... I bought some Cafaro, C-A-F-A-R-O, from the '80s. He just-

Doug:
That was-

Kyle:
Joseph. Was it Joseph?

Doug:
Joe Cafaro.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Who was married to my sister.

Kyle:
Wow.

Doug:
Back then.

Kyle:
And he had ... he had done ... He was working with somebody, but he had done his own-

Doug:
He was ... he was Chappe ... No, he was

Kyle:
Okay.

Doug:
Was Chappellet, and then he went to Keenan.

Kyle:
Okay.

Doug:
On Spring Mountain.

Kyle:
Okay.

Doug:
And then he opened his ... Then he started his own label and he had his-

Kyle:
Yeah. The Red Carafo and I-

Doug:
Red Carafo, yeah.

Kyle:
Yeah. I think may still have a bottle in my cellar ...

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
... from ... from the '80s.

Doug:
Yeah. That's my brother-in-law.

Kyle:
Whoa.

Doug:
Didn't know that?

Kyle:
That is very cool. He made great wine.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
Yeah, or makes great wine. I'm sure you-

Doug:
He's a solid, solid winemaker.

Kyle:
Yeah, yeah. Um-

Doug:
How fun.

Kyle:
So, that kind of stuff. You know, you're ... that just sticks in my brain. You know?

Doug:
Because that was a wine. You know, that label was totally unknown, small.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Small producer.

Kyle:
Yeah. That's what they had in the shop.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
And he said, "Oh, you can have three bottles of this, six bottles of this." So pretty soon, I had a little cellar. You know, I had like a little collection of stuff that he had recommended and he would send stuff down. Never, you know, never huge cases, just, you know, six of this, three of that, uh, you know, mixed case.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
Yeah. So then I started tasting and going, "Oh, wow. This is cool." And you know. Wonderful deal.

Doug:
So that's how you started.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
Yeah. And so then I started tasting and going, "Oh, wow, this is cool." And you know. Wonderful deal.

Doug:
And you met some people. I know you a dear friend of yours, Ann.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Ann Colgin.

Kyle:
Ann and I met, um, in a weird situation. Um, we were doing an interview, um, for InStyle Magazine.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
And a fr ... And a mutual friend, Mark Morrison, actually, a writer, had setup a ... an interview situation where there was a wine maker, uh, an actor, and a restaurateur, and Bruce Marter was the restaurateur, so we met at Capo.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
And Ann was there and then I was there. So, we ... we ... It was basically just kind of an interview conversation about these different worlds and how they collided and that's how I met Matt ... uh, and met Ann and that was '99, I think.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
Yeah, '99. So she'd been making wine, she started in '92, so that's ... she would have been seven years in and I didn't know Ann Colgin. I didn't know about Colgin. I mean-

Doug:
'Cause she hit off. She hit it right away.

Kyle:
Right out of the way, yeah. Helen Turley, she and, um, at Herb Lamb Vineyard.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
Um-

Doug:
Beautiful wines.

Kyle:
Really beautiful wines and still making beautiful wines. So ... so suddenly, I'm friends with Ann, you know, and, um, she ... she invited me to a couple things and invited me up to Napa. Now, I'm doing Napa in completely different way. (Laughs).

Doug:
'Cause you're hanging with-

Kyle:
Definitely hanging with them. (Laughs).

Doug:
You're hanging ... You're hanging with the big dogs.

Kyle:
And, yeah. (Laughs).

Doug:
Hanging with Ann.

Kyle:
Ann, and she's seeing, you know, kind of deducing I ... and she sort of like, I get to know, you know, about. I think I get to know Bill Harl ... I've met Bill Harland. I've met him a number of times. (Laughs). He never remembers, (laughs), who I am. That's totally fine, but I'd met him a couple of times.

Doug:
Isn't that ... isn't that ... but isn't that refreshing? (Laughs).

Kyle:
It's good, you know? But Don Weaver was so ... we ... we ... we went over.

Doug:
The Weav.

Kyle:
He would taste it and he's awesome and he ... and he was like, we ... he ... he ... He had a bottle of Harlan out. This is way back in the day.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
Poured that, you know, and tasted that and this is like ... So now, I'm tasting wine that is like, "Holy smokes."

Doug:
Some really good stuff.

Kyle:
Oh, you-

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
It's ... it's just ... it's night and day. And, um, so we start to get interested in that, can't afford it to get it, but you recognize, oh, there's some serious quality wine. Look. And how they're doing it and look at the house and look at the countryside and look how they're living and lo ... You know, it gets ... It gets in there, it gets in you. You know?

Doug:
You just-

Kyle:
I mean, you have-

Doug:
You just ... you just saw one side of it, baby.

Kyle:
I know. Wealth. (Laughs).

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
We'll get to that. (Laughs).

Doug:
It's-

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
We'll get to that.

Kyle:
Yeah. (Laughs)

Doug:
No, that's okay.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
That's ... that's the romance of the wine business.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
And you something? There's nothing wrong with that.

Kyle:
No. It's what ... it's what you ... I mean, in one way, it's what you sell. You know, it's Napa.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
And you want tourism to come and it is romantic. You know?

Doug:
It is romantic.

Kyle:
You know, it is wonderful.

Doug:
And it's ... it's enjoyable.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
There's another side of it.

Kyle:
As you said.

Doug:
Well, just like restaurants.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
You know, you ... you know, you don't go in the back door. I go in the back door to restaurants ...

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
... to sell wine and so do you now.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
It's like ... it's a whole different scene ...

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
... in the back.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
But in the front, it's beautiful

Kyle:
You know.

Doug:
What about movies?

Kyle:
Well, it's the same thing. It's the same thing.

Doug:
I'm at the movie theater. There's this beautiful thing happening on the screen.

Kyle:
Hm.

Doug:
What went into it behind the scenes?

Kyle:
And all the glamour. Yeah, no. That's not ... that's not a glamorous situation at all.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
When you're sitting in that makeup trailer at 5:00 in the morning, it ... it ... it, you know-

Doug:
5:00 in the morning.

Kyle:
It ain't no glamour.

Doug:
Shooting all night. Right?

Kyle:
Yeah. Or shoot all night in the mud and you're doing ... It is no glamour. So that's why I guess they turn it on at the other end. Right?

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kyle:
(Laughs). Maybe that's the example.

Doug:
That's funny.

Kyle:
But you're right. You're right.

Doug:
And meanwhile, uh, your bride, Desiree.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
You guys whe ... So was she the one you were going up to Napa with?

Kyle:
She would ... No, that came a little bit later.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
So I met, uh ... I didn't meet Desiree until, um ... It was right about when I met Ann, I think it was about '99.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
Um, and-

Doug:
Where'd you guys meet?

Kyle:
We met at a chiropractor's office in Los Angeles. (Laughs).

Doug:
(Laughs). That's ... talk about romantic.

Kyle:
Romantic, so romantic.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
I had injured my back and I was kind of doing this series of traction, seeing if it could, you know, not have to do surgery.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
And, um ... and she came in, walked in through the hallway, and I saw her through a doorway. And she went ... you know how fast someone would past a doorway? That's how fast I saw her and I knew it was like, "I'm gonna meet that girl." So I got out of my traction and, yeah. (Laughs).

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
No easy feat and went to say hello and ... and ... and didn't have the ... I didn't have the guts, I guess, to get a number or a contact, but made contact with her and then we ran into each other by complete accident, uh, two nights later at, uh ... Either a night later or two nights later.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
At the, uh ... at the Mondrian Hotel, at a Talk Magazine launch party, which I never would ... I was going to and she was never ... It was weird. It was weird. And we all ... we both had appointments the following Monday, same time.

Doug:
With the chiropractor?

Kyle:
Back at the chiropractor.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
So there was something that was definitely pushing us together.

Doug:
That's neat.

Kyle:
It was. It was really cool.

Doug:
That's super cool.

Kyle:
And she's super special and she wasn't really into wine so much, uh, at that time.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
Um, now she's a connoisseur and, fortunately, she loves the wine I make, which is ... was always helpful.

Doug:
Yeah. (Laughs).

Kyle:
Um, but she was ... she was instrumental really in ... in ... in giving me the final push to embark on my wine making journey, which I know we're getting to in the ... in the conversation, but she-

Doug:
No.

Kyle:
She was definitely-

Doug:
The timing's perfect.

Kyle:
Is it?

Doug:
Yeah, I want-

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Yeah, I wanna-

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
So-

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
So you're falling in love with her. You got married in '02-

Kyle:
2002.

Doug:
2002.

Kyle:
Yeah. Yeah.

Doug:
And she helped push you to wine world.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
You're busy. You've got a full time career.

Kyle:
Yeah. Yeah.

Doug:
And you start ... decide to make wine.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
How, uh-

Kyle:
Why? How? (Laughs).

Doug:
Tell me that. How'd that happen?

Kyle:
Why? Don't. Why? Don't do it, don't. (Laughs).

Doug:
No, I got ... I can understand why, I'm just, I'm kind of more curious about the why, and also the how.

Kyle:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it's ... it ... we ... it ... different things came together at the right time, really.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
Um, it was a thing where I found myself not getting home to see my dad as frequently.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
And there was always an excuse.

Doug:
Okay. Yeah.

Kyle:
You know, I'm in L.A., or I'm in New York with Desiree. We're traveling, you know, getting home to Yakima wasn't high on the list of priorities. My dad's getting older and ...

Doug:
Not easy. Not easy to get there.

Kyle:
Not easy to get there.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
No, that's a ... you know, that's a ... it's a bit of a schlep and so I was like, "Ah, you know, I'd like to get home and see my dad more oft ... more often." And at the same time, I was paying attention to what was happening in Washington with the wine world. You know?

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
And ... and it was a very slow start. You know? '77 was Leonetti, that was the first bonded ...

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kyle:
... winery on the east side.

Doug:
That was '77 in-

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Then they ... but, boy, they put ... They really helped put Washington on the map.

Kyle:
They did.

Doug:
They did.

Kyle:
They did. Those first few, but ... but ... but between '77 and '95, there were nine wineries developed. Only nine wineries.

Doug:
Only nine.

Kyle:
So by '95, now between '95 and 2005, it was now 300.

Doug:
Whew.

Kyle:
So it exploded. Um, I was one of those.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
But it started slow ... So ... But ... but they, what they did was, you know, you've got companies, wineries, like with Woodward Canyon, you've got Leonetti, um, you've got L'Ecole 41, and these are all the comp ... you know, the pioneers of Washington state and they all made fantastic wine.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
So, I'm tasting this going, "How can this be? How can Washington make good wine? I don't understand. No, it's Napa that makes good wine." But I was ... I was surprised and kind of exhilarated that eastern Washington finally had something cool. (Laughs).

Doug:
Well, I've ... I've only driven through there one time. It was a long time ago, 1980.

Kyle:
Oh, wow, okay.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
I was at school teaching.

Kyle:
Hasn't changed much.

Doug:
I was a school teacher.

Kyle:
Oh, wow.

Doug:
For two or three years.

Kyle:
Okay.

Doug:
And one summer, I'd always wanted to drive all over the country.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
So I did it.

Kyle:
Wow. Good for you.

Doug:
And I'll never forget driving.

Kyle:
Oh, it's grim.

Doug:
Across ... Well-

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
I gotta tell you this story, if I haven't. I started the day in ... on the Olympic Peninsula.

Kyle:
Okay.

Doug:
I'd spent the night.

Kyle:
Okay.

Doug:
Which is a ... which is a rain forest.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
This is east-

Kyle:
Beautiful.

Doug:
No, this is west of Washington.

Kyle:
Yeah. Yeah.

Doug:
I drove around, took-

Kyle:
Yeah, west of Seattle even. Way, way, way-

Doug:
West of Seattle, pardon me.

Kyle:
Yeah. No worries.

Doug:
Took the ferry across.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Drove up this great road through the trees. I ... I forget what mountains those are.

Kyle:
Those Cascades?

Doug:
Cascades.

Kyle:
Cascades, the second range, yeah.

Doug:
Drove back down.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
You gotta love this. It's the 4th of July.

Kyle:
Oh my Lord. Okay.

Doug:
So on the ferry, everybody's, you know.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
It's like an early morning.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
I couldn't sleep, so I was up early morning. I ... I think I told you this story, but anyway.

Kyle:
Okay.

Doug:
So I pull into some little town and I think it was called Leavenworth.

Kyle:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Doug:
It's the town that looks-

Kyle:
Mm.

Doug:
... like it's from Switzerland.

Kyle:
Yeah, so-

Doug:
It's like-

Kyle:
Yeah. Yeah.

Doug:
It's like it a bunch of little chalets. It's like-

Kyle:
Yeah. So you're north. You're up kind of a northern part of Washington state.

Doug:
Way up there.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
And it's like ... this is where I stopped to have lunch and there's a 4th of July parade going on.

Kyle:
Okay.

Doug:
Oh, Kyle, check this out.

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
You know, you've got the ... I'm sitting there on the curb having a beer and a ...

Kyle:
Right.

Doug:
... sandwich.

Kyle:
Right.

Doug:
You know, watching this thing go by.

Kyle:
Right.

Doug:
It's all the locals.

Kyle:
Right.

Doug:
And they've got the guys in the go-carts with the Pez hats.

Kyle:
Oh, man. Yeah.

Doug:
You know, all ... It's just like, wow.

Kyle:
Where am I?

Doug:
I'm having this great day.

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
And then, I get done and I hit ... jump in the car.

Kyle:
Yep.

Doug:
I'm driving east.

Kyle:
Okay.

Doug:
I got the map.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
I cross whatever river.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
And all of sudden, this beautiful trees, cascades, pine trees.

Kyle:
Oh.

Doug:
All of a sudden, it's high plains driver.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Nothing but dry grass as far as the eye can see.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
All the way to Spokane. I drove the whole way.

Kyle:
Yeah. Oh that is ... that's a tough drive.

Doug:
I'm like what just happened?

Kyle:
Who dropped a bomb? (Laughs).

Doug:
You know. Well, you know it. You dropped the bomb, but you know. You know what I'm talking about.

Kyle:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh totally.

Doug:
And so, I mean, and this where the, you know ... in eastern Washington.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Walla Walla and this is where the vineyards are now.

Kyle:
Well, it's weird because Washington is ... You know, every state has a nickname. Right?

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
So Wa ... Washington is the Evergreen State. You know?

Doug:
Not ... not where I was driving. (Laughs). I did-

Kyle:
Not where I was, not where I grew up. You know? And so you're like, "Ew, ew, ew, ew, ew." Bit of a misleading thing. So people, when you talk about Washington wine, people think, "How can you make wine there? It's so cold and rainy and wet."

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
Kind of thinking of Seattle. You know what I'm saying?

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
Oh, you gotta go a little east. And the east side of the mountains is ... is as you said, it is high plains ...

Doug:
It's dry.

Kyle:
... drifter. It's scrub, there's nine inches of rain a year over there and it's the ... it's the kind of the lower right hand and center ... central part of the state of Washington. It's a good size chunk and that's the Columbia Valley AVA, pretty much is that entire area. Within that, you got sub-AVAs, but that's-

Doug:
But that's where it's all happening.

Kyle:
That's it. That's where it happens. Yeah. Totally irrigation, surrounded by rivers, lots of rivers. The Snake River, the Columbia River.

Doug:
Yeah, plenty of water.

Kyle:
Plenty of water.

Doug:
And they're growing great grapes.

Kyle:
Yeah, they really are. The heat that ... it loves ... they love the big ... the big reds.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
You know, they like the big reds. So-

Doug:
You got Cabs, you got Shiraz.

Kyle:
Yeah, Merlot.

Doug:
Merlot does great up there.

Kyle:
It's wonderful. Grenache, Mourvedre, so any of the Rhones you can do.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
You can do the ... You can ... The only thing you can't really do is ... is Pinot Noir.

Doug:
(Laughs). That's okay. There's enough Pinot out there. (Laughs).

Kyle:
Oregon's got that covered.

Doug:
Yeah, yeah. They take that. They have to fuss with that.

Kyle:
(Laughs). Yeah, fuss is good word.

Doug:
Fuss is a good word.

Kyle:
Yeah. Yeah.

Doug:
For Pinot. Um-

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Alright, well, sorry. We did ... I got sidetracked.

Kyle:
No, really, you're good.

Doug:
I had my 1980s drive across the country.

Kyle:
I love it.

Doug:
Um, so you're getting into the wines. You see how good these wines are.

Kyle:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Doug:
You decide to jump in. You're ... you're visiting your dad. You're getting-

Kyle:
Yeah, I want to spend more time with him.

Doug:
In touch with him, yeah.

Kyle:
I'm paying attention to what's happening.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
And I ... and I ... and I reach out to, um, a winery in Walla Walla called Dunham Cellars because of ... they have a syrah there that I want to serve at the wedding of ... for my wife and ... and that ... that

Doug:
Oh, your wedding wine.

Kyle:
We're gonna have a wedding.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
In 2002, you know? I wanted to have Washington represented ...

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
... on the tables. You know?

Doug:
Makes sense.

Kyle:
For everyone and I wanted a large format. I wanted the .. the syrah and he said, "Well, we don't have that syrah but why don't you check with, um ... with the guys at Woodward Canyon." And so, um, I ... I called, uh ... I called up there and ... and they had what I needed, um, but in the conversation, Eric said he was coming to, Eric Dunham, said he was coming to New York.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
And so, you know, being from the east side and him being from the east side, I said, "Why, you know ... Give me call when you get in. Maybe we'll get a bite to eat."

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
Shows up, we go to dinner with a big group of friends, get along great. What a super guy.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
Great guy, and I was like, "This is cool. So I have a pal now in making wine."

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
So I would come back home, grab my dad, we'd drive down to Walla Walla, tasting wines along the way, and ... and we'd see Eric and we ... met his dad, Mike, um, and just kind of became Dunham pals and supporters and ... and it was really fun. And he showed me around the winery and I was like, "Wow, this is really ... This is it, man. This is really happening. You're really doing it."

Doug:
It's this, it really happens here. (Laughs).

Kyle:
Yeah. It's pretty, you know. It was kind of, oh, eye opening for me. So, um, meanwhile, you know, I'm thinking, "Gosh, it'd be nice to get back home." I wonder about wine? I wonder how learning about wine, making wine. Ann Colgin had told me her story and she had started, you know, with custom crush.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
She'd started by hiring a wine maker, Helen Turley.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kyle:
She had found a ... a vineyard, uh, Herb Lamb Vineyard, which she was sourcing from. She didn't know it, so she didn't know anything going in. You own the barrels, of course.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
And the ... and you have the wine maker, but I said, "Well, Ann did it." You know? I mean, I'm not gonna make wine to that quality, but you could do this, I was thinking. And finally, with enough of that, "Hey, honey, you know," when I'm talking to my wife.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
What ... You know, it's ... it's possible. You know, you could do that. And she finally said, "Will just stop talking about it and just go."

Doug:
And just go do it.

Kyle:
"Do it." The same? Yeah.

Doug:
That sounds like my wife. Just stop.

Kyle:
Stop talking and get to work.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
So I was like, "Okay, okay." So-

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
I sat with Eric and I ... I said, "Hey, would you partner with me on this little, you know, wine adventure? Maybe get 12 barrels and make some wine."

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
And he said, "Sure." Shook my hand and his first question's, "What do you want? What do you like to drink?" And I said, "Well, I really like drinking Cabernet." And he said, "Well, why don't we make Cabernet?" And I said, "Oh, that's a great idea." (Laughs).

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
And that was it. And we did it. Our first blend was Cab, uh, a little bit of Merlot.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
And, uh ... and because his syrah was so good, I blended in some syrah just to see what would happen. So we got 6% or 7% of syrah.

Doug:
Nice.

Kyle:
And, uh, yeah. And it was ... it was kind of what we ... We had 12 barrels, um, and-

Doug:
Which is, uh, couple, 300 cases?

Kyle:
Roughly 300, yeah. About 300.

Doug:
Perfect, good size, yeah.

Kyle:
Um, Mark Aubert how was ... who now has his own wonderful winery and makes extraordinary wines was ... was Ann's wine maker after Helen, Helen Turley. So when I knew Ann, Mark was making her wines.

Doug:
Got it. At Colgin, right?

Kyle:
And he was the one who said, "You know these Taransaud barrels?" And it's like, "I don't know.” He said, "Well, we've been using them and they're really great."

Doug:
Yeah, yeah.

Kyle:
"And we use ... this is what we use and the restaurants want em too."

Doug:
They are really great, yeah.

Kyle:
And it was like, and I was like, "Oh, okay." He said ... and he was like, "You should use those." And I was like, "Here, here, you should call ma ... Mel Knox and ... and get the barrel." And he-

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
Finally, Mark just said, "Ah, screw it. Here, listen, I'm just gonna ... I'm gonna have Mel send you 12 barrels." Okay? 'Cause they were hard to get at the time.

Doug:
Yes, they are.

Kyle:
And ... and I said, "Thank you." You know? So that was good. So, 12 ... and ... and ... and du-

Doug:
It-

Kyle:
Nobody in Washington. I mean, I think Quilseda Creek and a few others had some Taransaud.

Doug:
They were tough to get.

Kyle:
Whew, yeah.

Doug:
We had a tough time.

Kyle:
Oh.

Doug:
Good old Mel Knox.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
'Cause he was the best. He is the best.

Kyle:
Yeah. He is the best.

Doug:
What a character.

Kyle:
Yeah, and Al Mokie's got the company and so it's all good. So anyway, that's how I ... So I just suddenly got thrown into this thing. I ... I bought the barrels and ... and used the juice that Eric was using for his ... his wines.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
And we, off and running. And we basically filled ... What we filled, put in the barrels, we put in the bottle. You know, there was no like, "Oh, I don't think this barrel quite ... " It was like, "Nope, it's all good."

Doug:
Oh, no. They're ... Yeah, you're fine.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
You know, good wine, good barrels.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
And this is ... You know, those-

Kyle:
Unless there's a real screw up, you know?

Doug:
There was a time, you know, back 30 years ago. You ... There'd be some of that situation going on, but the expectations and the quality these guys ... You know the barrel guys, they're just like the wine guys. I mean, the quality is your reputation.

Kyle:
Yep. Yep.

Doug:
And if ... if you cut corners, it'll show in the wine.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Wine buyer, you know, we won't buy the barrels anymore.

Kyle:
Yeah. No, you're right.

Doug:
Just happens. Yeah.

Kyle:
You're right. And, you know, takes a couple years to finish it, understand it, but once it happens, yeah, you don't ...

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
You don't wanna go back. But these were fantastic. So-

Doug:
So you've got wine in the barrel, you're gonna bottle it, you're gonna have to have ...

Kyle:
Gonna ... Yeah.

Doug:
... a label. You're gonna call it?

Kyle:
I'm gonna call it ... What am I gonna call it?

Doug:
Call it Kyle's wine.

Kyle:
Well, there ... I went around ...

Doug:
MacLachlan Cellars.

Kyle:
... and around, done a ... Yeah.

Doug:
What are some of the ... (Laughs).

Kyle:
No. We did.

Doug:
Sure.

Kyle:
Eric and I sat down and went ... I still a napkin. It was like, "Let's just see. Eric Dunham, Kyle MacLachlan. Dunlach.

Doug:
Dunlach.

Kyle:
Dunlach. It's perfect.

Doug:
Dunlach. I like that.

Kyle:
Right.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
And I'm like ... and I'm like, "Ah, sort of sounds like a scotch, doesn't it?" Dunlach?

Doug:
It does. It does kind of. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kyle:
Yeah. Speyside. Speyside Dunlach. Oh, it's a ve ... 12 year old spey ...

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
I was like, "That's ... Maybe not." So we start ... him and I started thinking around about, "Well, what about something with the acting thing? Maybe Downstage? Yeah, Downstage is good."

Doug:
Downstage.

Kyle:
Unavailable.

Doug:
Ah.

Kyle:
What about like ... like Harlequin or Pantomime? Unavailable. So, I'm like, "Stage Right?" Unavailable. So I'm thinking and thinking and-

Doug:
Trademarks, they're all taken.

Kyle:
And fine ... I'm like, "They're all taken." And I'm like, "Well, there is this great stage direction. It's called, Exit Pursued by a Bear. I bet that's probably available." We thought it'd be kind of fun. Maybe we just call it ... So it was one of those. Couple glasses of wine and sort of ruminating and thinking, "Yeah, Pursued by Bear. Pursued by Bear, yeah, we'll do it ... Pursued by Bear."

Doug:
So what play? What play was that?

Kyle:
So the Winter's Tale.

Doug:
Winter's Tale.

Kyle:
Winter's Tale, one of ... No, not one of Shakespeare's more well known plays and ...

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
Um, but in Act Three, Scene Three, um, in the act break, he wrote the stage direction, “Exit, Pursued by a Bear.”

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
So the actor who's been talking notices there's a bear and runs off stage and the bear ...

Doug:
Bear, the bear chases him.

Kyle:
... chases him right off stage and actually ...

Doug:
Pursues him.

Kyle:
... pursues him and consumes him partially. He's identifiable by some of the actors that come later.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
Um, yeah.

Doug:
It's-

Kyle:
And I just thought, "This could be kind of fun." And it certain gives me ... It gives me a visual, you know, for a label.

Doug:
Oh, yeah.

Kyle:
And it's kind of theatrical and we can ... Yeah, I said, "Well, yeah, maybe Pursued by a Bear." I don't know. It's kind of ... kind of interesting and I told Eric and he was like, "Okay." You know? He was like, "Whatever." You know? "That's ...

Doug:
Yeah. It's your baby.

Kyle:
... what you wanna call it ...

Doug:
It's your baby.

Kyle:
... that's what you're gonna call it." And that's how the name came to be.

Doug:
What'd Desiree think?

Kyle:
Oh, she thought it was great.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
She ... she ... I think might have been even at the dinner where, um ... We did the ... the ... the story and it's not ... it's not a myth, but it's ... it's sort of taken on those. We ... we were coming back from Napa, in fact, and I was talking about it in the car.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
And flying back. And that night we had dinner with a friend of hers, Steve Martin, the comedian. So we were at Steve's house.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
In L.A. and I decided I had couple glasses of wine. I don't ... I didn't know Steve. I just met him through my wife.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
And I said, "What do you think of this name of wine?"

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
"Pursued by Bear." He ... and he was like, "That's great." And I said, "We're in. If Steve Martin likes it, dammit, it's done." (Laughs).

Doug:
You're in. Oh, yeah. And you know, you can pronounce it, it's whimsical, everybody's gonna remember it.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Remember that one.

Kyle:
Yeah. It's got that bear wine. You know?

Doug:
Yeah. That bear wine.

Kyle:
Where's that bear one, that chase wine, the Chased by a Bear, the Pursued by a Bear.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
So-

Doug:
Brilliant.

Kyle:
Anyway, I was a ... It was just kind of a fe ... fe ... fell into, you know, fell into it. So ... and it's ... but it's re ... it is fun.

Doug:
So how's it working? Are you ... How involved are you with the process?

Kyle:
Oh.

Doug:
Are you up there harvesting? Are you-

Kyle:
I'm up ... I'm up as ...

Doug:
Talk to me.

Kyle:
... much as I can be.

Kyle:
Good.

Doug:
I'd missed harvest this year 'cause I was working, but ...

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
... my wine maker, who's now Dan, a different, uh, guy.

Kyle:
Right.

Doug:
Dan ... Dan Wampfler. Um, he's got it completely covered. Um, but I'm there for blending, I'm there for release, I'm there ... I'm there all the time, um, which is a lot easier to do when you live in Los Angeles than it is in New York, but-

Kyle:
Yeah, how-

Doug:
Yeah. (Laughs).

Kyle:
How you ... Okay. So there's the-

Doug:
When's the Jet Blue flight that's great ...

Kyle:
Oh.

Doug:
... for JFK to Seattle. (Laughs). And that's what I do.

Doug:
I was gonna say how you do it, because ...

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
You're living ... You were in L.A. but you're in New York now.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
And-

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
You're staying here, I think.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
That's the gather I get.

Kyle:
Yeah, yeah.

Doug:
And, uh-

Kyle:
Well, there was never an option of ... of living over there. I mean, that wasn't gonna happen.

Doug:
No, not with your career.

Kyle:
No. And ... and I love the community and everything, but, um, that's, you know ... that's just the world right now. So ... so I have a really great team, people that I trust, and ... and ... and ... and everything's sort of works together really well, but, um, heavily involved. I've been mostly hitting distribution networks these past six months trying to increase that a little bit.

Doug:
Well, that's ... I was gonna say ... ask you ... about to ask you. I mean ...

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Growing it and making it, that's kind of ... That's really fun.

Kyle:
That's the fun part.

Doug:
It is fun.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Um, selling it, not ... not-fun, but-

Kyle:
Right.

Doug:
It's a challenge.

Kyle:
It is.

Doug:
And it's ... it's ... it's, uh-

Kyle:
Yeah, you know.

Doug:
So are you handling all that?

Kyle:
I'm handling all that right now.

Doug:
Whew.

Kyle:
I need help. Yeah. I need-

Doug:
I need help. (Laughs).

Kyle:
I need ... I ... I'm realizing I need ... I need some ... and I don't what the initials are gonna be that have to be in front of the person that I'm gonna hire, whether it's COO-

Doug:
Right

Kyle:
CFO, something, you know.

Doug:
Well, something to manage ...

Kyle:
They need to manage something.

Doug:
... distribution and sales.

Kyle:
Exactly right.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
Whatever that is. I need to have, um, someone to help me with that. So, um, good problems to have.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
The wine is selling, uh, the production is going up, still tiny. I mean-

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
That's 500 cases of Cabernet, which is nothing.

Doug:
Got it.

Kyle:
Um, I'd like to make more syrah, but Shiraz's very different to sell. Um, as good as it is, I think Washington state's syrah is some of the best in the world, it's just, people are not gonna reach for that.

Doug:
Syrah’s been a challenge in this country and ... and a ... many of us are trying to figure out why because it is a ... I tell you, it's ... growing it, 'cause we make one.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Um, it's a joy to grow.

Kyle:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Doug:
It sets a good crop. It'll set a good crop in a snow storm.

Kyle:
Yeah. It's sturdy.

Doug:
You know, unlike other varietals, which can be really flaky.

Kyle:
Yep.

Doug:
So you always get decent production and the flavor profile in syrah, um, you ... you talk about a rainbow. You've got a rainbow of colors to choose from.

Kyle:
Mm.

Doug:
You can make it light and fruity.

Kyle:
Mm.

Doug:
You can make it really extracted.

Kyle:
Mm.

Doug:
And, and peppery and tannic.

Kyle:
Mm.

Doug:
Or anywhere in between.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
And so lots of options. I think part of it might be, I think the American consumer just isn't' sure what they're gonna get when they get syrah.

Kyle:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Doug:
Is it gonna be that big rich extracted wine?

Kyle:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Doug:
Or more of a lighter style. So it's just a-

Kyle:
Wow, that's a good ... That's a good explanation.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
I was just in London and I was talking to them. They have ... they're a little more open to it, in fact.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kyle:
Um, maybe they're a little more used to it and accepting of it. You know? Um, but I agree with you. You can take the grape and do anything with it, really.

Doug:
It's fun.

Kyle:
And I love a big, rich, you know, robust syrah and we ... we do ... we do specific kind of aging on it. I needed to do ... to distinguish it from the Dunham syrah at the time.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
So, we used 600 liter barrels. Um-

Doug:
Oh, those are ... those are neat.

Kyle:
Oh. Those are neat, and frighteningly ...

Doug:
What are they called, um, um-

Kyle:
... expensive.

Doug:
Puncheon.

Kyle:
Puncheona, yeah.

Doug:
Puncheons.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
600 liters of ... so a normal barrel is 225.

Kyle:
Right.

Doug:
So it's about three times bigger, but they're shaped like a barrel.

Kyle:
They're shaped like a barrel.

Doug:
It's like a big barrel.

Kyle:
They just a big barrel and they're so beautiful. They're like furniture is. You wanna have them in your living room they're so gorgeous.

Doug:
I remember, we used to ... A winery I worked at years ago, we had those things, and rolling em around when you're empty.

Kyle:
Oh.

Doug:
Well, they're heavy, but ... but it's like ...

Kyle:
Yeah. (Laughs).

Doug:
... you gotta a tiger my the tail, man.

Kyle:
Watch out and don't let barrel, (laughs)-

Doug:
Get out of the way. It's gonna fall on your foot.

Kyle:
It's going through the wall, right? (Laughs).

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
Has a mind of its own.

Kyle:
I love it.

Doug:
But, uh, speaking of your syrah, that, uh ... It's called Baby Bear Syrah.

Kyle:
Yeah. So-

Doug:
Does that have anything to do with, uh-

Kyle:
Yeah. A young man.

Doug:
A young man named Callum?

Kyle:
Yeah, absolutely, So I had to pursue my Bear Cabernet, which was a blend, and, uh, Eric was the one how said, "You know, you should make a syrah." You know, his ... his syrah’s so great.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
And I was like, "Okay."

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
And why not? And ... and ... and then we got to talking about how we would distinguish it from Dunham, because we were sourcing from the same place, and that's when we came up with the idea of the large format, the 600 liter, and, uh, again, looking for a name, and I had some ... I said, "Well, I have the bear and I ... I, you know, Pursed by a Bear. And I said ... The first vintage was 2008.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
The year my son was born.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
So, I said, "We'll call it Baby Bear, I guess." He said, "We call it Baby Bear and it's a ... we make a big, rich, luscious syrah. So people think, "Baby Bear. Oh, that's so cute." And then they pour it out, they're like, "Holy smokes." You know? This is big syrah. So that's how it happened and-

Doug:
It's a big baby.

Kyle:
It's a big baby. Yeah.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
It's a big baby. Um, Callum was a big baby. He was a tall baby, um, and I ... I'd, uh ... I used, again, the label designer that I had found, um, in a ... in an illustrator, you know, and she had, uh ... agent had a number of different, um, artists in ... in her portfolio and she ... this was one that I thought, "Oh, this makes sense." Caroline Church. So I had her do the Pursued by Bear and then I had her do the Baby Bear and then I had her do the Rose', which is the ... the latest addition.

Doug:
You're making a Rose'?

Kyle:
I do.

Doug:
That's a-

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
It's called-

Kyle:
It's called, wait for it, Blushing Bear.

Doug:
Blushing Bear.

Kyle:
(Laughs). Yeah. Well-

Doug:
Totally appropriate.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
What, uh ... what grape you using for this?

Kyle:
So, you know, I basically just said, "What do I like to dr ... " I like to drink, uh, French Rose', I like to drink Bandol. So, I said to my wine maker, I said, "Can you find me Grenache? Can you find me Mourvedre?" I'm thinking he could. "Can you find me Cinsault?"

Doug:
Oh.

Kyle:
And he said, "Yeah." So-

Doug:
Tough varieties to find.

Kyle:
Yeah, not that easy. I mean, if they're there and there in the Amour, um, but I, uh ... I ... I put ... I sent him on a mission. So our first vintage, which was 2015, were ... were 75 cases of Rose'. (Laughs). So we ... we basically drank those.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
And then, (laughs) ... But we had our blend and we had our sources and then we just kind of upped it up and, you know, just ... it's stuff in extraction, it's just stainless.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
And ... and-

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
But ... but beautiful fruit and ... and it's got the great combination. You know, basically, I would say with Rose', you start with the color you want and you work backwards. So however long it takes, you just, you know ... That's what it takes, so-

Doug:
I remember drinking Rose' with you.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
In Napa Valley.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
So, Kyle, I'm a winemaker. I don't know anything about acting, I admit that.

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
And I don't pretend to.

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
But they tell me creative a process.

Kyle:
Yes.

Doug:
And so, and that's your profession.

Kyle:
Yes.

Doug:
So-

Kyle:
Yes.

Doug:
They also say winemaking is a creative process.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
So-

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Help me out here because-

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
Is there ... Are there parallels with creativity and acting and winemaking? 'Cause I'm curious.

Kyle:
I think so.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think you can point to, um, the fact that you are, um ... When they ... when they make a, let's say for a film.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
They always say that you make three movies. So you make ... There's the movie that you write that comes in a script form. Um, and that's just the writer working with ... with the director possibly.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
Then there's the movie that you shoot, which of course is the collaboration with actors and the director and the writer and everybody's working together, producer, blah, blah, blah.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
And then there's the movie you edit. And there are three different movies. So, I go-

Doug:
Interesting.

Kyle:
Okay, in the wine business, there is ... there is ... there are the vineyards.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
And your sources that you have. There's the, um ... There's the processing, I guess, so grapes get put through, crushed, put in a barrel.

Doug:
Pressed.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Yeah, aged, all that.

Kyle:
They age, they sit ... they sit for a while.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kyle:
And finally ... And there's the selling and getting it to the public, releasing it, the exposure, and all that. The finished ... the finished wine, and it's ... So these three ... It's these three phases, so I sort of say, there ... there're similar trajectories.

Doug:
Interesting.

Kyle:
I think.

Doug:
Right, yeah.

Kyle:
Um, you know, when you're making a movie, you don't really ... you ... you kind of know. You have a blueprint for what you're doing 'cause that's the script, but ultimately, you don't know because there'll be another movie made. That's the movie that's cut together and things may change, shorten, be eliminated, be taken away, and that is a process that you're blending, You're like going, "Oh, okay, Yeah, this one maybe with this or that with this. Maybe not." But you're bringing in all this stuff to make a movie. You're making a wine, so you're using all these components and we use the scenes. You know, this scene next to this scene, and we kind of know how it's gonna go 'cause we've done it before.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
And it's been written out, but always a possibility for change. Maybe this scene works better over here, maybe we don't need that scene, or maybe we're gonna cut half of it.

Doug:
Doesn't ... doesn't that bum you out? Let's say there's a really good scene that you ...

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
... personally love.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
And all of sudden-

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
What's the term? They ... it's left on the editing room floor.

Kyle:
Yeah, cutting room floor. Yeah, that happens. It happens. I mean, a great example that maybe some people have seen is Apocalypse Now. So you have Apocalypse Now, as ... as Coppola released it back in the day.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
Then you have hard darkness and then you have Apolic ... Apocalypse Now Redux, or redo, whatever, which has many other scenes that are added in.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kyle:
And they're really interesting and I love seeing them. They don't make the movie any better. In fact, I prefer the first one.

Doug:
The first one.

Kyle:
Yeah. But it's fun. It's kind of like, you know, when you do single vineyard, you're like, "Okay, we're gonna do ... This is our blend." But we're also gonna do a single vineyard just because we wanna put ...

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
... put that aside.

Doug:
Kind of see what's going on with that.

Kyle:
Yeah. So it's like ... It's a part of your ... your main wine. You know, like if I do Pursued by Bear, but I'm gonna do like ... I wanna do a single vineyard from, let's say DuBrul, or a vineyard that I use and you're gonna do a 100 cases or something like that.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
It's like ... it's like when you wanna do that, you wanna add ... hopefully, you add to the experience, which I think is what Apocalypse Now Redux is. It's like, you're adding to the experience by putting in these other pieces. So-

Doug:
You're blending.

Kyle:
You're blending.

Doug:
You're blending.

Kyle:
Basically blending. That's what you're doing.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
I could.

Kyle:
And you kind of know where you're going. I mean, you ... you know, kind of when you blend.

Doug:
Yeah, you do.

Kyle:
Yeah, I mean, with single ... with, um ... with Hillside, I ... I think you-

Doug:
Hillside.

Kyle:
It's just Cab and-

Doug:
Yeah, it's Cab and it's basically that blend. That blend's created in the vineyard.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Because-

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
We've ... So many years of making it, we've got these eight or nine different blocks.

Kyle:
Right.

Doug:
And when we harvest em, we know.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
You know, we actually know it, not that we're all knowing, but after 30 years-

Kyle:
No. You know your stuff.

Doug:
We kind of know. It's like, yeah, that's ones ...

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Definitely Hillside.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
You know, that's ... So it's going that way, right away.

Kyle:
It's the one thing that I wish, um, 'cause I don't ... I don't have estate fruit yet. I have sources that I continually go to that are consistent, but it would be really great to have ... have estate fruit so that you know every year. You know?

Doug:
That's big.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
That's big.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
That's totally the next ... That's the-

Doug:
That's your next step.

Kyle:
That's a big boy step. (Laughs).

Doug:
That's your next step. Big Bear.

Kyle:
(Laughs). Yeah, Big Bear. That's what I need, Big Bear.

Doug:
That's the Big Bear step.

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
So, first wine was 2005. It's 13 years later.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
You still like making wine?

Kyle:
I still like making wine. I like ... I'll tell you what I do. I like the people involved. I love ... I do love going out and meeting and talking and sharing, not only my wines, but kind of a ... what I say, "The good word of Washington state." Because, we're still the underdog and, you know, even though we're the second largest producer in the country, it's, you know, we're little compared to Napa. So-

Doug:
Yeah, but-

Kyle:
You know.

Doug:
I was thinking ...

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
... about you today because getting prepped for this, because Washington state, I have a bunch of neighbors in Napa who were buying land in Washington state.

Kyle:
Yeah, they are. Yeah.

Doug:
And growing grapes and making wine.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
And I was curious, since you're on the inside up there.

Kyle:
Mm.

Doug:
How the locals feel about all these Napa Valley folks coming up?

Kyle:
Yeah, there's-

Doug:
They're kind of like a little-

Kyle:
The ... it's-

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
It's a ... it's a mixed bag because, you know.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
They're coming in and ... and ... and so source ... You know, they're sourcing and using the grapes, so that, the growers are happy because they're selling their grapes. Um, and par ... And, I gotta say, the product ... um, the ... we had huge harvests these past couple of years.

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
So it's been abun ... there's an abundance there. Um, but what happens is, you know, the price starts to go up. You know?

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
And it's harder for a Washington state wine to charge, you know, a price that ... much more common than in Napa, but, you know, there's just a dispersity there ... is still there simply because it's Napa versus Washington. You know? So, you know, it's ... it's-

Doug:
But the Napa, I know exactly what's going on

Kyle:
Little concerned, yeah. I don't-

Doug:
The Napa guys are coming up and, you know, Cabernet at that price in Washington, gee, that's a deal.

Kyle:
It's a deal.

Doug:
I'll take that.

Kyle:
It's a huge deal.

Doug:
I mean, it's hurting you guys.

Kyle:
You know, it ... you know, it's potentially there. Yeah. That's the thing. So that's why, you know, I'm ... I'm kind of ... I'm thinking about it. It's a big step, but the idea that you own your own stuff is ... is ultimately, I think, where you wanna go.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
Just so you have control, not only control of what you're growing, but also control of the price. So you know what you're spending.

Doug:
That's true, because we have a lot of our own vineyards, but we still buy 15%.

Kyle:
You source, yeah.

Doug:
And I'm at the mercy of ...

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
... the spot market pricing and it's a little bit crazy right now.

Kyle:
Yeah. It is. Do you do-

Doug:
It's like-

Kyle:
An ... bi-yearly. Probably bi-annual.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
Yeah. As do ... as do I.

Doug:
And it's, um ... Yeah. And the only way it kind of makes sense is I have enough of my own vineyard that I can, you know, spread those costs over that.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
But, um-

Kyle:
Yeah. And it's also ... It's also nice to think, you know, if you have something that doesn't work, you can bulk that out.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kyle:
You know? And that can go, um ... If necessary, um, but it's, um, yeah. It's challenging having the ... 'Cause they're ... as you said, the price, you know, per ac ... whether it's per acre or per ton is ... is so much more reasonable than Napa.

Doug:
Oh, yeah.

Kyle:
Good to know about. Yeah.

Doug:
But, I might ... maybe I should come up and look around.

Kyle:
Come up and look around, man.

Doug:
But another ... another Napa guy coming up.

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
Here comes another one. (Laughs).

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
In his shiny pickup truck, or something like that.

Kyle:
Yeah. (Laughs). There he is.

Doug:
But, uh, so besides wine and acting ...

Kyle:
Hm.

Doug:
... you've got other interests, photography.

Kyle:
Oh, a little bit, yeah.

Doug:
I didn't know about that.

Kyle:
Well, I just-

Doug:
Tell me.

Kyle:
It's just mostly the ... mostly just posting. You know? I ... I ... I really enjoy that.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
The process of like putting stuff out there, but I'm not ... I really wouldn't say I'm serious about it. It's mostly just ... You know, the social media phenomena has ...

Doug:
Okay.

Doug:
And, uh, you like coffee?

Kyle:
Oh, yeah. That's ... that's ... that's almost a ... a hobby. I swear to God, yeah.

Doug:
So ... so back in the old days, what was ... what came first? Coffee or wine?

Kyle:
(Laughs). Oh, that's a good question. Yeah, that's a good question. I started drinking coffee when I worked at the golf course, um, so that was high school, uh, only because the other guys on the ... Oh me, talk about characters.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
So was over in the green's keeping staff in Yakima at the Yakima Country Club.

Doug:
Oh, tell me about this.

Kyle:
In summers.

Doug:
Oh, yeah.

Kyle:
And, you know, you'd ... it ... it was ... it wasn't ... it was fun, but not for me. Yeah, up at 5:00, which is not-

Doug:
Right.

Kyle:
When you're that age, you don't wanna be up at 5:00. Um, you know, and you were there on your sand machine or your Jeep.

Doug:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kyle:
Um, mower or your green mower, whatever, at 6:00.

Doug:
Riding the mover.

Kyle:
And ... Riding the mower. And ... and it was beaut ... It was summer in Yakima, so, you know, it's warm by 6:30, 7:00.

Doug:
But it's beauti ... The sun's coming up, there's dew on the grass.

Kyle:
It is beautiful. It is.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
It's kind of ... it's lost at ... on me at that age. You know what I mean? But now, it's like, you know, the older I get, the earlier I get up, so I really do appreciate it.

Doug:
So who ... who were the characters? What were they doing? Were they like?

Kyle:
Oh, gosh. So there's Old John, the waterman.

Doug:
John the waterman.

Kyle:
He worked at night.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
He had a white pickup truck and he rolled his own cigarettes and he always had this perpetual cigarette hanging out of his ... and you couldn't really understand him. He wore galoshes all the time.

Doug:
Oh my gosh. Oh.

Kyle:
Glasses and a hat. I mean, he's a small guy, and, he'd talk and talk, and this and [muttering] this is I need to move those sprinklers on the side of the nine and get em dry on one side of the hole. I'm gonna go and start taking em.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
And I was like, "Okay, John, you ... you do that." Then there was Red. Red was, um, a ... a character we ... I ... he probably a ... who knows what the past was with him, but he ... I remember he'd always stand with kind of, you know, one hip kind of cocked up and he had-

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
He had a wallet attached in ... in his back pocket that literally looked like two giant slabs of bacon.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
That had been stuck together, filled with ... I don't know what it was, but it was like a brick that he had stuck in his back pocket and he'd just stand there and with his hat on and chewing tobacco, of course.

Doug:
Right. Of course.

Kyle:
And just hold court. You know?

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
And I was like, "Okay, that's John. I don't wanna grow up to be like him." Um, that was Red.

Doug:
That's Red. Red's-

Kyle:
That was Red. Um, then the guy that I knew was a guy named Denny Colvin and he's a childhood friend and he grew up working at the golf course as well and he kind of helped me get a job there and he was a quite good golfer. He went to Stanford, played on the golf team there.

Doug:
Cool.

Kyle:
He's sort of ... sort of, at the same time, is Tom Watson, and, uh ... and he had ... He was a great player and he would ... he would mow in short pants and he real hairy legs.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
So he's come off the mower and he looked like he was a green -.

Doug:
Yeah. (Laughs). The had the green.

Kyle:
I don't know. It was a green-

Doug:
The grass on his legs. (Laughs).

Kyle:
Yeah. Abdominal Snowman, or something, but with green. And ... and ... and it was ... it was crazy. Um, and he wore a big straw hat and that was Denny. So just, you know, yeah, full-

Doug:
And they got you.

Kyle:
And me, some kid-

Doug:
You, you're the-

Kyle:
You know-

Doug:
You're the knucklehead on the mower.

Kyle:
Yeah. Yeah.

Doug:
So, look at ... this sounds like a ... This sounds ... I don't know anything about, um-

Kyle:
It's a sitcom is what it is.

Doug:
A sitcom. Right.

Kyle:
I hadn't talked about those guys forever.

Doug:
Why, you know ... You know ... you know, you got into wine. Why can't I get into the film business?

Kyle:
I think you ... There'd certainly be a place for you at the YCC.

Doug:
Yeah. (Laughs).

Kyle:
Once you figure out what you're gonna do. (Laughs).

Doug:
(Laughs). I'll be-

Kyle:
What's Doug gonna do today?

Doug:
I'll be Doug the waterman.

Kyle:
Yeah, there you go.

Doug:
I'll be on my mower, going whatever.

Kyle:
Pull ... Yeah, pull ... hauling pipes.

Doug:
Lost my ... lost my ... lost my hose. Whatever, what am I gonna do.

Kyle:
(Laughs).

Doug:
Um, what's next? Uh, wine-wise, you've got three wines. Any more ... any new wines coming down the pipe or-

Kyle:
Hm.

Doug:
You're just gonna sit tight?

Kyle:
No, I'm sort of-

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
I'm sitting with those. Those are actually keeping me plenty busy, so I'm got the Pursued by Bear, Baby Bear, and then the Blushing Bear Rose ... which we're, you know ... that will come out soon here. You know, coming out soon, probably about March, April.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
Um, so got that going and, uh, just, you know ... just getting the word out about the wine.

Doug:
Yeah.

Kyle:
You know.

Doug:
What's the people find your wines? What's the best way? Is there a website?

Kyle:
Right now, you know, I'm virtual, so on-

Doug:
You're virtual.

Kyle:
Online is really good.

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
PursuedbyBearWine.com

Doug:
Dot com.

Kyle:
Um, the Cabernet, I'm sold out of Cab and, uh, Rose', but the Shiraz is available and it's fantastic. Um-

Doug:
Good.

Kyle:
And there'll be a ... a ... a new Cab coming.

Doug:
Coming up?

Kyle:
Yeah, yeah.

Doug:
Next few months?

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Good.

Kyle:
Probably be ... be that and then, uh, yeah, just kind of marching, marching forward. So-

Doug:
Super.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
How 'bout, uh, in the film, TV land, anything new coming?

Kyle:
I've got some out right now, um, called, House with a Clock in its Walls. That's starring Jack Black, Cate Blanchett.

Doug:
I read about that.

Kyle:
It's really cute. Yeah.

Doug:
Good.

Kyle:
And so I play ... I play the ev ... and evil wizard, which is sort of fun.

Doug:
And evil wizard?

Kyle:
Yeah. You know, it's type casting.

Doug:
(Laughs).

Kyle:
Um, full prosthetics. I get to be, you know, um ... I've got crazy, you know, bloodshot contact lenses, and, you know, I don't even look like myself.

Doug:
How fun.

Kyle:
And they've modulated my voice a little bit. Yeah, it's funny. I'm definitely a demon from another place. Uh, and that was fun.

Doug:
How ... how long's makeup take for something like that?

Kyle:
That was four hours, started, and then we've got it down to about two and a half.

Doug:
Two ... Okay, so tell me about that.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
So it's two and a half.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Doug:
Every day.

Kyle:
Every day. You just sit and hang out and drink your coffee and, you know.

Doug:
Oh. And then they take it?

Kyle:
Try ... try and text.

Doug:
And when you take it ... They take it off, obviously.

Kyle:
Yeah, so you've ... It goes on for about two and a half hours, three hours, and then taking it off takes about 45 minutes, believe me.

Doug:
Oh.

Kyle:
To get everything off and cleaned up and washed out and ... Yeah. It wasn't ... it wasn't the most pleasant experience, but the look was pretty cool. So-

Doug:
Okay.

Kyle:
I enjoyed it.

Doug:
You can do that for Halloween.

Kyle:
Halloween, exactly right. (Laughs).

Doug:
There you go.

Kyle:
(Laughs). Why not?

Doug:
Alright, Mr. Kyle, you're a busy man. I know you just flew in from Washington. You're selling your wine down in our nation's capitol.

Kyle:
Yep.

Doug:
You're back home in New York.

Kyle:
Yep.

Doug:
And, um, so great to see you. Thanks for taking the time and I look forward to seeing you again soon and another glass or two of wine.

Kyle:
Oh, I look forward to that, Doug. Thanks for having me on. This is awesome.

Doug:
You bet. See you.

Kyle:
Cheers.