Full Transcript
Doug Shafer:
Hey, everybody, Doug Shafer. Back with you, another episode of The Taste. Uh, happy today, I've got a longtime friend. His kids and my kids grew up together. We had parent- parent-teacher meetings, soccer games. The kids are grown and gone so we don't see each other at the soccer games. We used to see each other traveling, but we're not traveling, so at least we're on the phone. We've got Tor Kenward from TOR Wines. Tor, good to talk to you, buddy. How you doing?
Tor Kenward:
Doug, it is good to talk to you, neighbor. Uh (laughs), we live about a quarter of a mile, if that, from each other, and where have you been?
Doug Shafer:
(laughs). Sheltering in place.
Tor Kenward:
(laughs). Yes, I know.
Doug Shafer:
Laying low.
Tor Kenward:
Same here. Crazy.
Doug Shafer:
So, anyway, man, I was thinking about you last night and I was trying to think, when did I first meet Tor-
Tor Kenward:
Uh-oh.
Doug Shafer:
... and I don't... I remember hearing about you before I met you, and it was here at the winery and somebody who've worked here for a long time who was doing a lot of our stuff in the office and PR and marketing. Uh, she said, uh, oh, this... your... Tor Kenward, Tor... and I said, "Who's that?" She goes, "It's this guy from Beringer. He just loves Hillside. He's calling about Hillside all the time." So I- I remember-
Tor Kenward:
(laughs).
Doug Shafer:
... hearing about this mysterious guy who worked at Beringer and he loved our wine and was super complimentary whenever we heard from him, so that was my first memory of you. But, uh, before we go to Beringer, let's start with you. Where'd you- where'd you come from? Where'd you grow up? Talk- talk to me, family, home life, what's... tell me the story.
Tor Kenward:
Oh, geez.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tor Kenward:
Maybe- maybe the home life's the easier way to start for, uh, on that equation. Um, I- I- I had two very Bohemian parents. Dad was a writer, mom was a- a painter but, uh, we found out later, a very famous Broadway, off-Broadway actress too. So, um, they had a lot of friends who played musical instruments, wrote, painted, and that was the, uh, circus that was the home life for quite some time. Mostly, Southern Cal, dad was, uh, um, had a very famous play, which was his claim to fame-
Doug Shafer:
Hmm.
Tor Kenward:
... that went, uh, from South Cal to Broadway, and then was made into a motion picture. Um, so they gravitated toward, uh, South Cal and lived there. That's where most of my childhood was and- and, uh, then a little bit in Taos, New Mexico, which was part of that Bohemian community thing. So I had a- I had a fascinating childhood. Sometimes, we never knew where the food was coming from-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Tor Kenward:
... um, but, uh, we always had... we were always highly entertained. And, uh, you know, I look back and I feel very fortunate to have that kind of crazy, uh, childhood period in my life.
Doug Shafer:
How cool. So he was a- he was a- a- a playwright or a screenwriter or both?
Tor Kenward:
Yeah. He- he... well, he- he started in Hollywood, uh, as a director, a young director with the, um, uh, one of the major studios and somebody dared him to write a play, uh, is the story that he tells anyway. So he wrote this play and it was, uh, very successful at The Pasadena Playhouse and, um, then it got these write-ups, uh, in Life magazine and Time, then it went to Broadway and they made it into a motion picture. It was called 'Cry Havoc', and-
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tor Kenward:
... and it still pops up, you know, uh, on late night television. It's... it (laughs)... you can still stream it.
Doug Shafer:
I'm gonna- I'm gonna check it out, 'cause Lord knows I've got some time at home (laughs) right now.
Tor Kenward:
Yeah, no kidding. I'm always looking for a new film too. Now here's the interesting thing about the, uh, about the story. It- it is 100%, uh, all-women cast, uh, and- and they're- they're the nurses during, uh, in the Philippines during the Bataan March. And it's, uh, got a little mystery in it and, um, it- it- it- it holds up. Strangely, it holds up.
Doug Shafer:
Okay. Well, I'm checking it out. It's... and that... 'cause that was 1943, if I'm right.
Tor Kenward:
Yup.
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
Tor Kenward:
I think that's right, yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. It's amazing. But, uh, you mentioned living in Taos, so have... you- you lived in Taos for a while as a kid?
Tor Kenward:
Yeah, I did. Back when, you know, Taos was not so, uh, cool and- and popular. It was really an artist community back then.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. I was- I was gonna ask you about that because it's become quite the- the trendy place, I think, but, uh, back then-
Tor Kenward:
Yeah. Well, I don't have much of a memory. What was interesting is that dad taught school, uh, and there were... you had the- the Indian community there.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tor Kenward:
Um, and then you had just, uh, a whole mix of culture and people. Uh, there were... I... he told me there were four different or three or four different grades in one room, and he taught all of them in that one room different, uh, grade levels, uh, a huge number being the Indian, uh, community, the Taos Pueblo Indians. And somebody would pick me up, uh, in the morning, take me to the Pueblo Indian community, and that was my daycare for a couple years.
Doug Shafer:
Pretty cool.
Tor Kenward:
Yeah, it's different.
Doug Shafer:
And then, uh, but high school, that was probably back in... where was high school in all that- that part?
Tor Kenward:
South Cal mostly.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tor Kenward:
Uh, Taos was pre-high school and, uh, yeah, S- South Cal, and then moved to Santa Barbara. We lost our house. Uh, this is a little déjà vu maybe, uh, to a fire. Well, actually, it was a flood after a fire in South Cal. It was our primary residence there. So dad, mom moved to Santa Barbara and I went to high school in Santa Barbara.
Doug Shafer:
And talk to me about, I'm just curious about, uh, the home life. Was there wine in the house?
Tor Kenward:
You know, mom liked wine. Uh, dad, not really. He was a very good cook-
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tor Kenward:
... which was meaningful, but I did not grow up with wine being, you know, part of the culture of our home at all. How about you? I was curious.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah, no, same thing here. It was, uh, suburban Chicago, it was bourbon and beer, um-
Tor Kenward:
Yup.
Doug Shafer:
... cocktails, you know, vodka tonic, some Martinis and Brandy Alexanders after dinner, at least that's what I-
Tor Kenward:
Yup.
Doug Shafer:
... saw, and I'd sneak a sip here and there. I think wine would be Lancers or Mateus if it ever showed up. I mean-
Tor Kenward:
(laughs).
Doug Shafer:
... (laughs) and-
Tor Kenward:
I- I always pictured your dad, 'cause I- I knew your dad-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tor Kenward:
... uh, and, you know, we- we certainly crossed paths quite a bit. Uh, yeah, I always thought that this was this wine geek-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Tor Kenward:
... who came from Chicago and, you know-
Doug Shafer:
After all the...oh.
Tor Kenward:
... who was, uh, and was making Zinfandel in the basement and all that kinda stuff. Uh, -
Doug Shafer:
Oh, how funny. No, Tor, I'm sorry you didn't know that story. So he was, uh, worked for a corporation. He was in charge for long range planning and, uh, his job was to read the tea leaves and he kept coming across, it was in education publishing, but he read everything and he kept coming across this wine boom, this was the late '60s, it was gonna happen. It was gonna happen. So he came out here in '71, '72-
Tor Kenward:
Interesting.
Doug Shafer:
... ran around with, Jimmy Warren, the real estate agent. And-
Tor Kenward:
Oh, yeah, of course.
Doug Shafer:
... looked at Spotswood was-for sale. He could've bought that. He wanted to have Hillside-
Tor Kenward:
Ah.
Doug Shafer:
... and he ended up down in this, um, you know, potentially hillside area, which is he- he thought he wanted hillside grapes. He didn't really know, he read some book.
Tor Kenward:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
And was going to be an absentee owner for 10 years, but within a year and a half he got fed up with the corporate thing and, you know, at age 48, and I was 17 in high school, we- we drove out- drove out and started growing grapes. And you know I remember...
Tor Kenward:
Wow.
Doug Shafer:
...his first wines. He was buying Louis Martini zinfandel. We'd taste it and go "oh that's interesting." And just step by step. But, uh, you know...
Tor Kenward:
Oh my god.
Doug Shafer:
Isn't that funny? No.
Tor Kenward:
Yeah. Well that was the time, you know, if you going into the '70s, the early 70', there were less than 50 wineries.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tor Kenward:
It was 40 or 30 something. And you are so right, Spotswood was for sale. Everything was for sale.
Doug Shafer:
Mmm-hmm.
Tor Kenward:
Uh, you- you- you were almost making more growing prunes back then then you were making cabernet.
Doug Shafer:
That's right. I remember there were a lot of prunes when we moved out here. I remember that.
Tor Kenward:
Yeah, there were. That was a more profitable crop for, uh, all the way up, maybe till the '60s.
Doug Shafer:
Right. Right.
Tor Kenward:
Uh, and uh, after prohibition.
Doug Shafer:
So we're in a...
Tor Kenward:
Wow.
Doug Shafer:
We're still in a new business here. So...
Tor Kenward:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
Santa Barbara high school. So, what happened after high school.
Tor Kenward:
Um, went to college. I started at UCSB in Santa Barbara. Uh, then I was holding down a couple- uh- you- I had the...somehow I was not terribly smart in that I was holding down two jobs and I was running track and I just burned out with a full load too and took an extra quarter off to do some backpacking. I worked at a back pack station up in the Sierras which I loved doing and it was just very thera- therapeutic. Um, took a quarter off and came back and in the mail box was my invitation to get my physical and go to Vietnam.
Doug Shafer:
Oh man.
Tor Kenward:
So yeah. Yeah so I was a- I think I was a sophomore and I went "Oh boy. What do I'm gonna do? This is not what I really planned on." I- I- you know, my parents were sort of in their own world and I was not really terrible bright in that I did not see myself as a soldier of war. But I ended up- I ended up in Vietnam for a year. Worked the hospitals there and um...yea it change- it changes your life in a lot of different ways.
Doug Shafer:
Thanks for doing that. It wasn't easy. I was- I was right behind you. They- they kind of, right when I got my number they uh, stopped the draft three months after that so I missed it. But uh...
Tor Kenward:
Well...I'm kind of glad you did Doug, honestly.
Doug Shafer:
I'm sure changed everything for you. Your outlook on life?
Tor Kenward:
Yeah, it changes your - you- you are very aware that life is- is not forever. It- it is- it's a- it's a fleeting glances, really, in time and you've got a little place in it and, uh, you know, use it to the full advantage. I- I vowed that I was only gonna get involved in activities and jobs in life, in general, that really excited me. That uh, that allowed me to commit 100% of myself. And that's how I first had a jazz club when I came back- went back to school and at the same time had a jazz club with a bunch of good friends who introduced me to fine wine then would come up and uh, we- one- one good friend had a- a couple wine stores, actually they were liquor stores with a huge wine selection in the back, and he convinced me to come up to Napa and Sonoma to help buy wines for the store and, you know, visit the uh- uh- the people up here and uh, I would camp in the Bothe-Napa State Park in my little tent...
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tor Kenward:
...and wake- wake up in the morning and- and uh, knock on doors and- and taste wine with the uh, the vendors. I just...
Doug Shafer:
How fun.
Tor Kenward:
...yeah, I just fell in the love with this place. Uh, and that was it. You know, I- I was having a good time with the jazz club but I knew it was fleeting and would last forever and the wine business seemed to have a lot more meat on the bone. So uh, yeah.
Doug Shafer:
How cool. So you- so you were uh, so you finished school and you opened up a jazz club. I love that. I can see you -
Tor Kenward:
Well it's a ...there were about- there were three of us and- and we- we had a real serious jazz club. We had- we had all...we had a lot of the greats. You know, Stan Gatz, uh, Herbie Hancock, uh, Chic Corea who just pasted a couple days ago and returned to forever...Oscar Peterson, um...man...
Doug Shafer:
Oscar Peterson.
Tor Kenward:
...oh...
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. The big O.
Tor Kenward:
we- we had- we had some major talent. Yeah it was a lot of fun. We did some rock n roll too now that I think of it. We did- and comedy- we did Steve Martin when he was blowing up balloons and doing a one man act.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tor Kenward:
I had Lily Tomlin. Uh...
Doug Shafer:
Oh Tor, cool! I never hear about this. This is neat.
Tor Kenward:
Yeah, no. It was- it was a good part of- it- it was sort of a chance for me to get back into life again and uh, it was uh, it was fun and it was fun to look back. I'll tell you a funny story Doug. You know Cooper my son.
Doug Shafer:
Yes.
Tor Kenward:
So, he found in a pile of things my old booking book and it had you know, the people that we were booking and you know, we were paying for Bonnie Raitt lets say...
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tor Kenward:
...uh I think it was like two or three thousand dollars a night.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tor Kenward:
Uh, I did Bonnie Raitt and Tom Waits. But anyway, long story short, he took all of those people and he- and he- and he made a CD for me of what they- what they were recording and what they did back then and gave it to me as a gift.
Doug Shafer:
Oh how cool.
Tor Kenward:
It was one of my favorite gifts any of the kids had given me.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) That's so cool. Now- you know I gotta tell you, I can picture you, you know, being a co-owner in a jazz club. That- that fits for me. I mean that- that works. I get that. So...
Tor Kenward:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
...so...now, I did hear a rumor about Elvis and Aretha. Was this uh, the same time-frame?
Tor Kenward:
Uh, that was when I came back from 'Nam. Uh, I had a roommate and we were processing out and we were both at the uh, Presidio in San Francisco. Wonderful place to be if your- if you got a couple more months to spend and you're getting out of the service. And he had a- a private protection company that he was co-owner of. So when the major talent was coming in town, you know, he would say, "Tor, do you want to be a- do you want to be a body guard for Elvis?" And I go...
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tor Kenward:
"I guess I got a good seat if I do that" Yeah sure. And so, I did a body guard gig for Elvis for a- a couple nights and Aretha for a couple nights and uh...uh, you know, I actually felt it was combat duty with Elvis because a lot of the women that were attacking and coming aggressively at the stage were bigger and more aggressive than I was.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) Oh I got a visual.
Tor Kenward:
Yeah. I should've had combat duty for those- some of those nights, yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. Worn your helmet. Um...oh my god that's a great story. I love it. Uh, so then- so meanwhile...that you're- you're starting to get into the wine thing, you're up here camping in the park and go into wineries choosing wines for your friends back in Santa Barbara so, what uh...what was the next step? What happened then?
Tor Kenward:
Um, uh- my- I had- My girlfriend was at Stanford so I kept coming up and doing the wine thing and one day I ran uh, Bay to Breakers, uh had a- had a really good gig, sort of high and that I could do anything and I- I turned to my- my girlfriend and I said, "You know, I'm going to go up to Napa and I'm going to apply for a couple jobs". So uh...
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) Wait, what'd- what'd she say to that?
Tor Kenward:
She said "Great!"
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tor Kenward:
Yeah know, I get to be closer to Stanford.
Doug Shafer:
There you go. Good.
Tor Kenward:
And uh...and uh...uh, we came up and she says "Oh look at the Rhine House. That's beautiful. Why don't you work there?" So I applied at Beringer. Uh, I applied to be Chuck Ortman's...uh, because I really wanted to be a winemaker, Chuck Ortman's assistant winemaker...
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tor Kenward:
And uh, which as a job that was never according to Chuck, I found out later, filled.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tor Kenward:
Beringer gave me a...(laughs) Do you remember- do you remember, what's it Robins that owned Spring Mountain?
Doug Shafer:
Mike- Mike Robins owns- owns Spring Mountain where they use to film Falcon Crest, right.
Tor Kenward:
Right. Crazy dude.
Doug Shafer:
Yes.
Tor Kenward:
Absolutely, pardon me, bat shit.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tor Kenward:
You know he- he was- he was a nutcase. But anyway, that's another story. Um...
Doug Shafer:
And was Chuck making his wine too? Was Chuck working for him?
Tor Kenward:
Chuck Ortman was his winemaker.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tor Kenward:
That was Chuck's beginning.
Doug Shafer:
Okay. That's right.
Tor Kenward:
That was- that was Chuck's beginning before we hired him and then at Beringer and then used him for a lot of the chardonnay projects that we were doing.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tor Kenward:
But uh, long story short Beringer gave me a call...it was either the next day or the following day and I said "Oh what the hell. I'll take whatever job you've got. I just want to come and- and get involved in the wine business. And uh, it was a tour guide. I took that job. Uh, I said, "Can you let me work my schedule around going back to school and taking winemaking classes at Davis and there was a- a two year course over in Santa Rosa in viticulture" and Beringer said "Yeah, go- go for it. We'll- we'll work your schedule." And upper management said you know, "This is a very aggressive...you know, he's not terribly smart but, maybe we...
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tor Kenward:
...maybe we can move him up a little bit". So in a few years I was vice president and um, in charge of all the fun stuff.
Doug Shafer:
Your so bad. Not very smart. Wait a minute, you get hired as a tour guide, you got a crazy schedule because you’re going to classes in Santa Rosa and finishing that up and uh, a tour guide...you know, there's tour guides that get stuck in the tour guide and they stay there for like, ever. It's a good gig. It's a fun job. But within two...
Tor Kenward:
Neh. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
...within two years- two years your vice president of the "fun stuff." How'd- okay so how did you- how'd that happen in two years and- and what's this- what does "fun stuff" mean?
Tor Kenward:
Well, fun stuff means uh, I could work with winemaking on shaping the private reserve programs, what they should look like, what vineyards we should be getting into. In other words I was put into a position to be one of the major architects of the upper end, this ultra-premium part of the- the wine business for Beringer. So we started with Beringer in that direction and then moved on to as, as you know, we bought wineries, we built wineries, uh...it was a- it was an interesting period of time because every time I felt like, well this is a dead end now, we would buy another winery or build another winery and it was a- it was new challenge to um, to say "Okay. What- what- what kind of wine should we be making. How should we be telling that story? Who's our audience?" Uh, it was- it was a lot of fine and it- and as you know back in the '70s more of the '80s and '90s uh, we were going through a culinary revolution.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tor Kenward:
And that became- and...Beringer would send me to Europe. Those formative years, those early years and I was blown away by the hospitality programs. The, the whole concept of food and wine was elevated to something that I was not familiar with in the United States. So Beringer allowed uh, me to- to help shape a lot of culinary programing and build the Hudson House to entertain people and to bring out celebrity chefs to work with. Um, and we started a school for American chefs over that period of time...um, did a lot of educational programs. It was a really exciting time to be, as you well know, in the Napa Valley. You know, Doug, I- I- I'm thinking back on what's something that Andy Beckstoffer told me. Um, we we're driving down to - as you know, Andy is a big 49er fan...
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tor Kenward:
...or it could've been a Warriors game, but anyway...Andy's driving like a maniac, lead foot, which he is...
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tor Kenward:
...and, you know I'm- my- my hearts pounding because we're- you know, we're barley missing cars as we're going in and out of traffic...
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tor Kenward:
...and Andy's tell- telling me stories uh, back in the "70s when- when he was here he said you know, he was part of the AG groups. He said, "We would get together and we'd- we would, you know, talk about the future and what- the way that we needed to manage the Napa Valley and the concept was, back in the early days, do not let the sun set on the tourists. In other words, get them in, get them out. And...
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) Don't let the sunset...
Tor Kenward:
That was- that was- that was that whole concept in- up until the '70's and uh, into the 70s. And it wasn't really until the '80s and '90s that Napa uh, started to become really the destination for wine and food, you could say in America.
Doug Shafer:
Well, you had a front row seat and I do remember those days because the early days...we didn't do any formal tastings. I don't even think we did a tour. In most wineries it was just...
Tor Kenward:
Right.
Doug Shafer:
...basically a bar. You- you'd belly up to the bar. You come in and drop your, you know, your five and ten bucks or nothing.
Tor Kenward:
Right.
Doug Shafer:
It was free.
Tor Kenward:
It was free!
Doug Shafer:
It was free. And get five or six glasses of wine and out the door you go. And I can remember, you know, going into that area like at 4:00 in the afternoon and a group would be in there an be- they'd be a little bit- a little bit intoxicated and they were like...
Tor Kenward:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
...and they were like, you know, just you know, "Pour me three" you know, "Can you hurry up?" I go- you know it's like, "What's the rush?" They go "Well, as soon as we're here we got two more places to stop, we got to get there by 5:00 and that'll make 15 for the day" and it's like I go, "Fifteen-
Tor Kenward:
(gasps)
Doug Shafer:
Fifteen wineries?" And they'd go "Yeah! We're going for our record today." It was insane. Um, and that's-
Tor Kenward:
That's what I used to call "purple haze".
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. That was kind of a scary time actually. But...
Tor Kenward:
Yup.
Doug Shafer:
So you had a front row seat. Because we we're tracking kind of at the same time but I was buried in the cellar and you were out front developing all this new ways of hosting people which we all do now I mean, it's wonderful. But you were- I- I didn't realize you'd started that whole food program at Beringer because I was thinking, was that right about the same time uh, Robert Mondavi was doing? They had a chef thing too-
Tor Kenward:
It- it was- it was the same time.
Doug Shafer:
Interesting.
Tor Kenward:
The way it went was Mondavi started the great chefs program...
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tor Kenward:
...I believe in the '70s which was one of the very early- uh, very visible ones. You had, um, I believe which was more of an internal one, uh, the Trefethens. Remember their?-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tor Kenward:
It was more for us and it wasn't really for outsiders. And then Belle and Barney Rhodes were you know...that was the um, that was the parlor to be invited to because they were having celebrity chefs and writers from all over the world coming through their house and that was an epicenter in Napa Valley, the Belle and Barney Roads house.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tor Kenward:
There was one other program...oh, and actually it started a little later it was more in the '80s, the cake bread program.
Doug Shafer:
That's right. Yeah they did a great one. So-
Tor Kenward:
Yeah. Uh and there wasn't much else then, other than Chandon was- was developing the kitchen and brought out Philippe.
Doug Shafer:
Mmm-hmm.
Tor Kenward:
Remember that?
Doug Shafer:
I do. That was big news. And I saw- I think...
Tor Kenward:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
...what happened because I've had a few people come on here, um, and talk about "the old days,” there were no restaurant in the valley and so...
Tor Kenward:
None.
Doug Shafer:
It was entertaining at home...so...
Tor Kenward:
Yup.
Doug Shafer:
Vintners would host each other and um, whoever was doing the cooking, you know, they got together and you know, that was- that was kind of a movement just here locally. And so I think the Mondavi program, your program that you started at Beringer, the Cakebread was kind of a transition, than all of a sudden those probably didn't continue to flourish because we be- had this wonderful restaurant scene happen which we...
Tor Kenward:
Right.
Doug Shafer:
...you know, still do.
Tor Kenward:
That a good point.
Doug Shafer:
That's the progression I think because uh...
Tor Kenward:
I- I- I think that there's a lot of honesty to that's the...
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tor Kenward:
...that was very true. And I think we were all embracing these restaurants and- and...
Doug Shafer:
Yes.
Tor Kenward:
...coming. And uh...you remember the Tra Vigne scene at one time...
Doug Shafer:
Oh yeah.
Tor Kenward:
..for about a decade.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tor Kenward:
I mean, that was crazy.
Doug Shafer:
A lot of blurry nights there. Um...
Tor Kenward:
Ohh yeah.
Doug Shafer:
But yeah, because we love restaurants because I don't know about you, but I'd rather go out than cook at home but that's- that's because I'm not the best chef in the world so.
Tor Kenward:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
And it's more social.
Tor Kenward:
It- it- it is. And your supporting your customers too. You know, the restaurants support you and you were supporting them. And we've gone back almost- uh, we've gone back in time, up until covid, uh where the- the wineries started to take over and do all the entertaining and the- and the restaurants started to lose traction...
Doug Shafer:
That's true.
Tor Kenward:
...so we went- we went 360 on that whole thing.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. I- I- That was kinda going before the covid thing, so we'll see how that shakes out. But uh, one thing I don't want to forget about- I've got to find out when you and your lovely bride Susan got together. What's that story?
Tor Kenward:
Well that- that's a fun one.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tor Kenward:
Susan was a writer. Uh, she was writing for several magazines one- the article that brought her out to Napa was for a magazine called "Working Women" and it was about women in the wine industry. Um, but uh, she had written a few cook books and she was writing, I think her third or fourth at that time when she came out. And I was single, so there was always- if there was a- a- a- a- somebody new in town I was on- I was on that checklist, you know...
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tor Kenward:
...But uh...Tor's still single, so uh...somebody introduced- it actually it was um, oh Smith. Stu and Sue Smith...
Doug Shafer:
Oh Stu Smith. Yeah.
Tor Kenward:
...uh, introduced, uh...us. And uh...I went, "Wow. This is- this is really cool." So uh...and- and I'm gonna tell a story on myself that could get me into trouble today. Susan came to apply for a job at Beringer and after we had met and uh...you know, I looked at her in the eye and I said "Susan, I- I just don't have a job that, you know, that would be- that would fit for you. But, I have and invitation to Belle and Barney's house tomorrow night, I wondered if you'd go with me...
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tor Kenward:
...on a date." (laughs) And uh, she said yes. And uh, and then, I think about a year later we were married.
Doug Shafer:
That's great. Did you find her a job? (laughs)
Tor Kenward:
Uh...she- she- the way she tells this story now is that she worked for me and Beringer for ten years and never got paid.
Doug Shafer:
Okay. There you go.
Tor Kenward:
So I guess so.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. I can see that.
Tor Kenward:
You know what- what she did- one of the uh...which was an extraordinary program, she uh- one year she said "You know what we should do..."- cause I was doing a lot of uh, culinary programs. Celebrating regional cuisines one year, uh, international cuisines another year...and bringing these chefs in from all over the world. But she said "We should- we should take a year and just celebrate the great women chefs in- in the United States" and I went "Wow. That's a great idea." So we did that for a full year uh, brought chefs from all over the state and then did one huge event that was the who's who of the culinary world at that time. They came out from New York, um, Texas...from every place to be part of this one big night at Beringer where everybody from Alice Waters to Julia Child to...you know, the famous chefs that were running the restaurants, all showed up. I had hired Gary Danko uh, to- to make sure that all the kitchens, which we set up all over the grounds at Beringer...were working and that all the uh... chefs were happy. And it was one insane full day and night uh, at Beringer that I'll never forget.
Doug Shafer:
That's-
Tor Kenward:
But that was Susan's concept and that was her idea. And she's right that she never got paid for that.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) Well, you ought to work on taking care of that. Gary Danko...
Tor Kenward:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
...he- he was uh- well he was at Beringer. Wasn't he your guy for a while?
Tor Kenward:
Yeah. I brought Gary out from the east coast. A mutual, very good friend who worked with us for uh, over a decade, Madeleine Kamman, uh at Beringer, uh introduced me to Gary. And uh...I was just literally blown away by the talent. And I shut down a lot of the culinary programs we had and I said "Gary, if you'd like to, I'd love for you to be our full time chef" and Gary said "Yes." And worked for us for about six or seven years at Beringer...before he really needed to get out into the real world and have his own restaurant which he did after that and Gary and I remain friends today and I still think he's one of- one of the great talents.
Doug Shafer:
Oh he's a great chef. His restaurant's so wonderful. Um...
Tor Kenward:
Yep.
Doug Shafer:
...that- so...I never knew that you were so involved in so many different projects that Beringer what doing. I- I mean...but now that- what you just explained earlier. So, how cool that you were on the front lines of every new project, every new winery purchase, new vineyard purchase...where's it going to go? You were behind you know...what's the story going to be? How's this- these grapes shape...you know...what programs going...
Tor Kenward:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
...whats the story going to be on this one? Where are we going to go with that? How's this-
Tor Kenward:
Right.
Doug Shafer:
How does this wine replay into the whole portfolio price point? That's- That's like, um...I- it's not- you can't pigeon hole it. It's not PR. It's not marketing. It's not brand building. It's just all of those things, I think. Don't-
Tor Kenward:
You know, its hard to pigeon hole but boy it- it was- it was challenging but it was really uh, rewarding in so many ways. I was just...Doug, I was just lucky. Uh...there are so many people coming to Napa or have come to the Napa the last tens years that are far more talented then I am...that uh...could've done what I did. Uh...but I was just- I was right place, right time.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah of they could've done it, but you did it too man. You were there on the scene. Let uh look and-
Tor Kenward:
It was cool!
Doug Shafer:
It was great. So looking- looking back on it, what's- what are your favorite parts about that whole Beringer experience? What do you feel good about it?
Tor Kenward:
One...element was the core management group remained the same for at least 20 of those years. So, I worked with...you know, Ed, first Myra Nightingale, but Ed Sabragia all those years. You know, Ed was just a great talent and- to watch him develop and- and- and become stronger and stronger as a uh, communicator but certainly as a wine maker. Um...and uh...then, you know the presidents that I worked with uh...all different, but really interesting people. Um...uh, we- we went from...uh, European ownership to private equity. The Texas Pacific people came and uh...bought us. Then we went public uh...as a public company. Then we were sold to the uh, Australians all in that period of time. It was a crazy dance. And Beringer opened up their checkbook whenever I felt I needed some education as far as you know, winemaking or business. And uh...was very liberal about uh...giving me whatever educational assistance...going back to school and uh, at Standford and- and uh, Cal Tech... to sort of sharpen up in some areas. It was- it was a period of time that I don't know exists anymore in corporate or non-corporate America.
Doug Shafer:
Well in the- in the early days they sent you to Europe so you'd learn how-
Tor Kenward:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
That- how they did the hospitality thing which came back and directly affected how we do things today. But you-
Tor Kenward:
Um...
Doug Shafer:
You- you did mention...you- I'm- I'm jumping at your here. You did mention a good buddy of mine, Bob Steinhouer.
Tor Kenward:
Yeah. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) Who ran all of the vineyards for Beringer forever.
Tor Kenward:
Yes he did.
Doug Shafer:
And um...I can just see you, I can see you...
Tor Kenward:
And he- and he's still working. He's still working. You know that.
Doug Shafer:
He is. I can see the two of you in a meeting which would be hilarious because he's all about growing grapes and...you know, just getting- making good- making good grapes man and- and your like, doing this whole other thing. Oh, I- I would've loved to hear some of your conversations that you were having. (laughs)
Tor Kenward:
Oh no, Bob and I got along and we still get along famously. I- He's- He- He's brilliant but he's- he's really a character too as a person.
Doug Shafer:
Well, he's a character, he's a farmer but my dealings with him, he always understood the big picture. And uh...you know, yeah you can have the best grapes in the world but if you can't make good wine and you can't market it and promote it and sell it, you’re not going anywhere. I mean he always-
Tor Kenward:
Right.
Doug Shafer:
He always got the whole picture which was so neat. Um...
Tor Kenward:
Yeah. He was a smart guy.
Doug Shafer:
So taking a shift here, when did you start making your own wine? Back in uh... back in the '70s?
Tor Kenward:
Yeah I had this- uh- I had this wonderful retirement party at Beringer uh...which was great after about 25 years. And uh...Beringer allowed me a year to two years, it might've been a full two years, to mentor on full salary while I started our own little wine company.
Doug Shafer:
Oh wow.
Tor Kenward:
And- and uh...even though uh...we sold a lot of stock options when we went through that period, which was major for me to be able to afford to start a winery without any- we did it without partners. Without any kind of strange stuff. Uh...we did it uh...with cash and passion. Um...the- the concept was really simple Doug. It- it's what uh...I learned to believe after all those years at Beringer. And- and you've said it already and I- I know your uh, winery and the way that you look at uh, your philosophy...uh pretty well I believe is that it really does come down to the vineyard and the grapes.
Doug Shafer:
Mmm-hmm.
Tor Kenward:
So if you focus on that and you get what you consider you know, the top, the best uh....blocks....uh and vineyards to work with, the rest will fall into place. And uh...the- you know, I- I do remember people saying, "Well, Tor, you know, so many people it'll be easy for you". I never imagined that that would be the case but it- it did help. I'm- I...
Doug Shafer:
Sure.
Tor Kenward:
...will. It- more than I thought it would initially. But the secret sauce, the thing that makes us successful as we are today is that we got into seven blocks and Beckstoffer To Kalon that we work with the Philips family with four blocks in Vine Hill Ranch. The we have a property up on uh, Prichard Hill that uh is adjacent to Colgin. And uh we had that property right below Dalle Valle and above- above Screaming Eagle on the uh...east side of the trail...
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tor Kenward:
...Tierra Roja And that's- that's our partners other than uh, Larry Hyde for a little chardonnay. So um...yeah, we've got really a pretty cool set up of uh...vineyard partners that uh, I- I will give, other than having a brilliant winemaker, Jeff Ames, who's been with me since the beginning. Um...man its- its- its a fun deck of cards to wake up and play with during the day.
Doug Shafer:
And so- you guys- you and Susan started back...it was what, 20 years ago? Early 2000s?
Tor Kenward:
2001.
Doug Shafer:
And- and you're up to- so how many cases are you making now total?
Tor Kenward:
Oh gosh. We're case stacked at Costco with uh...
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tor Kenward:
...it a- what is it?...yeah we're about 5,000 cases.
Doug Shafer:
Nice size.
Tor Kenward:
We're about 5,000 cases. Yeah. It- it- it's a- Susan and I wear a lot of hats. We don't have a huge amount of employees. It- it's a very simple uh, business model without a huge amount of working parts.
Doug Shafer:
Keeping it simple.
Tor Kenward:
Right.
Doug Shafer:
And- and uh...you- you brought- your don't have your own facility so your- correct? You guys custom crush, I'm assuming.
Tor Kenward:
We uh, we do with Bart and Daphne Araujo...
Doug Shafer:
Oh okay.
Tor Kenward:
...with uh, Wheeler Farms. So we're...
Doug Shafer:
Super.
Tor Kenward:
...part of that- that group.
Doug Shafer:
That's a- you know, I have yet to be in that facility. It looks just really cool driving by it.
Tor Kenward:
Well we'll have to have you over there Doug.
Doug Shafer:
Good. I'll- You'll have to- Good. You can show me some of that hospitality that your so good at. I want the whole show. (laughs)
Tor Kenward:
There we go. I like this idea. I like this idea. We'll get you and Annette on over and uh...and uh...do a little...
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tor Kenward:
...uh...do a little fun- fun and games.
Doug Shafer:
I'll bring a baguette and some cheese. We'll just picnic.
Tor Kenward:
Well you can come over to our house for a little bit of that hospitality. You don't have to go to um...to Wheeler.
Doug Shafer:
That's true. That's true. Good point. But uh, also there's some new news. I- I heard something about 400 points? You got something goin. You got-
Tor Kenward:
Yeah we have a 400 point wine. How about that?
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) You know, I'm a little bit bummed out because I had a 300 pointer and I was- now you've outdone me. So what's going on?
Tor Kenward:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
Tell me- tell me about this 400 point wine.
Tor Kenward:
Uh, well uh four of the major critics gave one of the wines this uh, the 2018 vintage uh, all 100 points. Which..
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
Tor Kenward:
I- you know, other than the Doug getting 300 points, I don't- I don't hear a lot of that going on so we're kind of excited about that.
Doug Shafer:
That's cool.
Tor Kenward:
We had 600 points this year on the 18. So...it was- yeah it was crazy.
Doug Shafer:
Wow. Wow. Congrats. That's great! Way to go man.
Tor Kenward:
It's good to be an overnight success, isn't it?
Doug Shafer:
(laugh) 20 years...Yea I know that- I know that- I know that story. I've-
Tor Kenward:
You know that- you know that story and that feeling.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. I've- I've- I've seen that movie. So what's uh....what's coming? Well actually do me a favor, run through- run through what your line up is varietally. What do you guys make?
Tor Kenward:
We're- we're really single vineyard cab...um...with the uh To Kalon cab. We co-ferment a- a cab franc and cabernet from To Kalon for another wine called Pure Magic in certain years. Uh...Vine Hill Ranch we do a cabernet and then we co-ferment a little petit verdot from Vine Hill with cabernet and certain years and that's another Pure Magic.
Doug Shafer:
Mmm-hmm.
Tor Kenward:
Uh we do a Tierra Roja um...we do the Melanson Vineyard. Uh...and then we do a Larry Hyde and a- a- some very old cuttings from Larry. It's a little over 30 years old now. Steve Beresini, a good friend of Larry's, we uh...we work with them on some very small production chardonnay projects. So...that's it.
Doug Shafer:
That's all- that's- it's all- it's all primo. It's great.
Tor Kenward:
That's the secret sauce.
Doug Shafer:
That's the secret sauce. So- also- so...
Tor Kenward:
Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Again thinking about you last night, you've been here a long time. You've seen a lot of changes in this valley and people, you know myself included, sometimes send a, you know, kind of complait about this complain about that...
Tor Kenward:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
...but what are some changes that have happened here in the last 30, 40 years in this valley that you like...that you think is pretty cool?
Tor Kenward:
You know I- if- if there's one thing I- I come back to when we're challenged as we've been- and I think you will agree I- in the last couple years, uh...with the fires and some of the weather conditions, we've been challenged more than I can ever remember in the 44 years that I've been a vintner...um...is to see the community still pull together. We- we've gone from 40 wineries when- or so when you came up in the '70s...uh, to over 600 brands right now.
Doug Shafer:
Mmm-hmm.
Tor Kenward:
And when we're threatened and challenged, I still see us pull together as a community uh...as- as a industry and work together for solutions. Uh, so...that has given me great hope. Uh, I think we have, obviously we did before covid, uh traffic situations that we need to- to be uh...we need to address better than we have in the past...find some solutions there. We have housing situations, if you will, that we need to work on. But I think that we have the people, the, the smarts, and the- the strength in numbers as a community to solve the big problems that do face us. So...I- you know, I look at the community as being the plus...
Doug Shafer:
Mmm-hmm.
Tor Kenward:
...that I hold above everything else.
Doug Shafer:
Well said, and I agree 100%. And someone asked me the other day about uh...(laughs) they were cute. "Doug who do you consider your competition in the wine world? Other wineries?" And I was kind of like um..."I don't look at that like that" They go, "So what do you mean?" I said, "These are all- these are all my fellow vintners. We're all in this together, whether there’s fire, or there's rain or there's good times or bad times, we're all in this together and thank goodness plenty of people like to drink good wine so there's kind of room for all of us out there. So, it's not competition. It's friendly competition if its competition, but it’s more a...let’s all join together and you know, raise the quality of wines higher, raise the reputation of Napa Valley...
Tor Kenward:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
...and California wine higher and also take care of our own here in the valley which- which we all work hard to do. With donations and charities. And some of those issues you talked about, we can solve them. And now- you know, it's kind of interesting because those were kind of the hot buttons before covid and now I kind of look at those, cause I hadn't thought of those issue that you mentioned um...in a while and I'm thinking now its like, well after covid you- okay hey lets talk about traffic. As opposed to before covid we'd be like well you know, every body would getting kinda...taking a stand. Now it's more like, yeah we can fix this. This is nothing. Um...
Tor Kenward:
(laughs) It's true.
Doug Shafer:
You know- you know what I mean?
Tor Kenward:
Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
But it's almost a perspective. It's like, yeah we can fix this. So um...that's good. Good hopeful message my friend. Tell- tell me where people can find your wines, because they've got to try them. What's the easy way to pour them?
Tor Kenward:
Um, we're mostly because of our size, uh, consumer direct so uh, if- if people are- are interested certainly go to the website torwines.com uh...there- it's entertaining my son whose, as you know, Cooper's down in Hollywood doing...uh...editing and directing films. He did a little film on that, which is fun, but...
Doug Shafer:
Neat.
Tor Kenward:
It- It's- It- you know it's got some stories on the website too from the past so if people are interested in some stories about uh...Napa in the '70s and '80s there's some on there. But, certainly if they're interested uh...we always...uh we don't have a club or anything so, if we can uh, hopefully get uh, uh...members on board uh we- we- I try to treat them as I'd like to be treated where you don't have to buy something to get something else and we don't send you something without you uh,you know...We do sell out of wines very quickly uh...
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tor Kenward:
...on the website. Um...as you do. Your Hillside Select and certain wines that you have. It's just the nature of the game. But um, that's the easiest way. And hopefully when restaurants come back, um...we have a lot of great restaurant partners out there that uh, that have our wines.
Doug Shafer:
All right. Good news. Well my friend, it's been wonderful to talk to you. It's been too long, and uh also it's really great to find out some really fun new stuff about you I never knew. So...
Tor Kenward:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
...so thanks for taking the time.
Tor Kenward:
Doug, it's always a pleasure and I can't wait to have people back in the house again.
Doug Shafer:
All right man. Thanks again for the time. Take care. Give Susan a hug.
Tor Kenward:
Great to talk.
Doug Shafer:
All right. We'll see you. Thanks.
Tor Kenward:
All the best.
Doug Shafer:
Bye bye.