Full Transcript
Doug Shafer:
Um, have a great guy on today. Long time friend, long time winemaker, Tom Rinaldi. Tom's been founding winemaker at at least three wineries that I know about: Round Hill, Duckhorn, Provenance. And Tom, good to s- good to have you on. I can't remember when we first met. Do you? Where did we first meet? Any idea?
Tom Rinaldi:
Oh boy. I'd bet that was around the t- about 1978 is my bet. I was getting grapes in the neighborhood and, uh, uh, your dad was a buddy. I d- I v- maybe the Vintner's Association. Maybe a, at Calistoga tastings.
Doug Shafer:
Y- yeah, the old-
Tom Rinaldi:
Things like that.
Doug Shafer:
The old wine tech thing up at the Calistoga. The hanging beef dinners, remember those?
Tom Rinaldi:
Exactly. Oh boy.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) And, and it might've been-
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah, that goes back to the '70s.
Doug Shafer:
It does. And I think, well, we have something in common, because I wasn't around full time till early '80s, but dad's first Cab was a '78 and Duckhorn's first Merlot was a '78, so I remember meeting Dan through, Dan Duckhorn through my dad. That's probably where I met up with you at some point, back in there, those days, anyway. But, uh...
Tom Rinaldi:
Sure.
Doug Shafer:
Lot- long time ago.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah, th- I spent the first 22 vintages there.
Doug Shafer:
Ah.
Tom Rinaldi:
Uh-huh. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
I know you did. I know you did. But before you-
Tom Rinaldi:
Good, good memories.
Doug Shafer:
Before you went to Duckhorn, let's go all the way back. Before Napa, before winemaking, you know, where were you born? Where'd you grow up? Talk to me.
Tom Rinaldi:
I was born in San Francisco and my dad and his mom were born in San Francisco. Uh, my mother was conceived in Sicily and born in Brooklyn, but, uh, she managed to meet up with my dad and had three, uh, three sons. Uh, I was the middle. In fact, uh, my birthday's next Saturday. Uh, f- 71.
Doug Shafer:
Wow. No way.
Tom Rinaldi:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. Way.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
But, um, I, I went to St. Ignatius High School, very proud of that. Played football. We won the city championship, uh, that year.
Doug Shafer:
Nice.
Tom Rinaldi:
And then, uh, at 17 I signed up for the military and went in the Navy. And, uh, that was that. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
So-
Tom Rinaldi:
We got a good idea.
Doug Shafer:
Like, if it's, growing up in San Francisco, that must've been, that was, god, was that with Haight Ashbury and all that, and the hippies and the flower children and all that jazz? Was that going on?
Tom Rinaldi:
Exactly.
Doug Shafer:
Oh. (laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
I got caught right in the middle of it. I got to meet Janice Joplin. I, I, I had a long conversation with Jerry Garcia. I was there, man. I mean, I s- I was there for their first concert, both Big B- d- or, and the Holding Company, with Janice Joplin, and, uh, the Vandals becoming, uh, the Grateful Dead.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
And they were right down the street, you know? And it was pretty cool to be, uh, part of that.
Doug Shafer:
You were, like, what, high school?
Tom Rinaldi:
Yes. Yes.
Doug Shafer:
God. I can't even believe what that was like. The, so, you're, th- you're in the middle of that whole scene, the summer of love and all that, and then, but meanwhile you got the Giants and the Niners. Were you, were you tracking all that? 'Cause I know you're...
Tom Rinaldi:
Oh, sure.
Doug Shafer:
...a big Giants fan. Yeah. Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. And my mom, since she was born in Brooklyn, was a Dodgers fan.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
And I mean, we were watching Sandy Koufax throwing a no hitter against the Giants, we were on our hands and knees begging, "Please, somebody get a hit."
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
And she is just, "Yahoo!" Dodger blue for...
Doug Shafer:
Dodger-
Tom Rinaldi:
...her last breath. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
Oh, that's, that's amazing. Um...
Tom Rinaldi:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
What a scene. So, growing up, wine in the house?
Tom Rinaldi:
Yes. I wasn't much of a wine guy, I tell you the truth. Um, but when I turned 16, I had a motorcycle. I was 15 and a half. And I came up to the Napa Valley at 16 years old. And as long as I took the tour, I could do a tasting.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
And I did the tasting, I could buy some. And so I'd buy some Green Hungarian for, you know, two dollars and share it with my gal friend who was sitting on the back of the bike.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
And, uh, so I kinda, I don't know. It wasn't really showing off, but it was kinda cool that, uh, there was no carding or anything getting weird about, uh, some kid buying some-
Doug Shafer:
You- (laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
Some wine to enjoy.
Doug Shafer:
Wait, let me get this straight. You're 16, and the drinking age is 21. Maybe it was 18, it was that for a while.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah, it was 21.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
And, uh, but they're serving you no problem. (laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
No problem. I never had a problem. W- it was the darnedest thing. Typically it was summertime...
Doug Shafer:
Oh. So, where - what, what wineries did you go to? What, where was, what was going on back then?
Tom Rinaldi:
Uh, BV was one of my favorite. In fact, uh, I bought some, uh, Georges de Latour way back in, uh, oh boy. That would've been, uh, the '63 vintage.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tom Rinaldi:
And, uh, that was, uh, $3 a bottle, and then they jacked up the price to $3.50 with the '64 coming out.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
And that was definitely high end. And, um, those I kept in my parents' cellar. The rest of them, I, I would party with. And I'd go to Martini. And, uh, Krug. And across the street was, uh, Christian Brothers.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tom Rinaldi:
Back then, it was, uh, sparkling wine, and that was pretty exciting.
Doug Shafer:
And that's the, uh, that's currently the, what, the, the home of the CIA. Greystone.
Tom Rinaldi:
Correct.
Doug Shafer:
So, so, all right. So you graduated from high school and you joined the Navy. What, what's that story?
Tom Rinaldi:
Well, um, needed to get away.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
Tell you the truth, uh, the f- my friends were starting to get into more and more hard drugs, and, uh, I didn't really wanna get caught up in that.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tom Rinaldi:
Uh, I, I j- and I didn't wanna, really wasn't ready for college and I wasn't ready for a job, so, uh, it just seemed like a good alternative. I was in good shape, and, uh, studied all the test and just really, you know, cut off all my hair and, (laughs) you know, went in. I, I had 120 days to basically, uh, I was in the reserves and, uh, just, uh, before I had to report to boot camp. And I was excited, to tell you the truth. And I, I d- I aced all the tests they gave me and, and was in great shape. So I really didn't have to do much of anything. I, I was just, got promoted. And, um, um, I went back to school back in Millington, Tennessee. M- uh, Memphis ... area. And I l- had a, a little apartment in Memphis. I was there for, uh, nine, eight months. And then I, I went out to, uh, San Diego, to Coronado, tried to become a SEAL. That didn't work out. I got a i- infection in my foot. So, uh, ended up getting drummed out, and tried to get back, and it would've been week one instead of week eight, and so forget it.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
Um, I became an air crewman based in Guam, uh, in an EC-121 Super Constellation. We used to be typhoon trackers. We'd fly right into the eye of the typhoon and then find out where in the world we were by looking at the north star with a sextant.
Doug Shafer:
You gotta be k-
Tom Rinaldi:
And, uh-
Doug Shafer:
In a plane?
Tom Rinaldi:
Reading off the coordinates.
Doug Shafer:
You gotta be kidding me. You f-
Tom Rinaldi:
Nope.
Doug Shafer:
You guys were flying into typhoons?
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah, this was before satellite, so that was the, the way to figure out where we were. We'd go in at night, and if it wasn't 100 knots, that didn't count. It was a...
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
...tropical depression. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
And I did 30 penetrations. A real live typhoon.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. Can y- uh, y-, uh, I've heard stories about this. I mean, obviously you've lived it 30 times. It just seems like that's a really kind of dangerous, really dangerous thing to do. Or is it not that dangerous, just really hairy?
Tom Rinaldi:
It was hairy.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
I'll say that much. Uh, but the one cool thing is I never, ever, ever got airsick.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
And I was totally an exception to the rule, 'cause somebody would start and then it would just start moving around and you just, just that aroma was enough for a lot of people.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
How many, how many guys on the v- people on the plane?
Tom Rinaldi:
We had two crews of-
Doug Shafer:
Just two crews. Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
So there were 24 of us. And so, you would, it, we would fly 18 hours at a time. So it would be nine hours on and nine hours off, or four and a half on, nine hours off, four and a half on. We had a full kitchen, um, bunks. Uh, b- it was living pretty large.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah, 'cause these are these big, these are these big, big planes, right?
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
The s- the su- okay, got it.
Tom Rinaldi:
Four engine with tip tanks, and like I say, 18 hours of fuel. So they would kind of pervert us in Vietnam. We'd go flying up to Hai Phong, Hain- Hainan, uh, back and forth there, and monitor all the MiGs and surface to air missiles and boat traffic and you name it. We were, that was our, one of our big responsibilities. I'd go there at least once a month. And typically the end of the month, and then the beginning of the next, and that way we got, uh, hazardous duty pay and, uh, tax free and all this other nice... (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
All the nice, uh...
Tom Rinaldi:
Accoutrements.
Doug Shafer:
But basic- so the Vietnam war was in full swing, but you're a, you were Navy, Navy Air, so you were -
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. But I did spent time on the ground, uh, and in the helicopters.
Doug Shafer:
Huh.
Tom Rinaldi:
And got spun off to the 101st Airborne. So it was, uh, it wasn't all just flying around. It was, it would be in the water on the ground, you name it. I had a top secret clearance, so I got a map to, to monitor all the, you know, the, the damage in our, on our perimeter. And one thing was, uh, al- they always gave me that lighter, to, you know... (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
Huh.
Tom Rinaldi:
Anything goes wrong, light the map.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, man.
Tom Rinaldi:
You know, and then you could do whatever you wanna do about, su- you know, s- defending yourself.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tom Rinaldi:
And I'd typically have a m- a marine on either side of me, and they were crackerjack shots. In fact, one time they nailed a guy right up in the tree. I never saw him alive, but I got his AK47 with a scope on it, and everybody thought I was bad.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
I carried that thing wherever I went.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, man.
Tom Rinaldi:
And, uh, it w- it was really a, a mean looking machine, I'll say that much. Had a wooden stock with, uh, Vietnamese writing on it, and the works.
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
Tom Rinaldi:
So, we went back last year, my wife and I, for our...
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
...50th anniversary. My first deployment.
Doug Shafer:
Tell me about that. You and Beverly went back, so, 50, so it'd been what, 50 years?
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. Almost to the day.
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
Tom Rinaldi:
April of, uh, 1969 was my first, uh, my first deployment, and, uh, much better reception this time.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
How was that trip? Because I know, I read a couple articles.
Tom Rinaldi:
It w-
Doug Shafer:
Was it great?
Tom Rinaldi:
It was wonderful. I'm really glad we did it last year instead of this year. I, it would've been just impossible.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
Uh, but, um, it worked out beautifully. Uh, we took the river cruise up to, uh, into Cambodia, and visited temples and people's homes and the works. It was just, it was phenomenal.
Doug Shafer:
Hmm. Nice. Yeah, I'm glad you guys got to do that. You kinda-
Tom Rinaldi:
Me too. I, it was a g- a good, uh, you know, memory, um, cleanser, if you will. C- uh, I never had post-traumatic stress disorder. It was the darnedest thing. All my, all my friends got it.
Doug Shafer:
Huh.
Tom Rinaldi:
But I never had a touch of it. But, uh, I, I had memories, uh, real clear memories of the different places, Da Nang, Chu Lai, Phu Bai, Hue. And, uh, I had to visit each and every one of those and, you know, just kinda wash up the memories. And it's so j- so different 50 years later, it's, it's, it's laughable.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. Why, how come you think you never had the post traumatic thing?
Tom Rinaldi:
That is, uh, there's a button or a trigger that snaps, and, uh, I just don't think I have that button or trigger.
Doug Shafer:
Huh.
Tom Rinaldi:
It, that's all there is to it. I, I've talked to psychologists and different people about it, and, um, th- there's, j- just one of those things.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Well, I'm glad you don't.
Tom Rinaldi:
I'm very fortunate in...
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
...that regard, you know, 'cause some of, I, I tried to get a c- few of my friends to come back with me, and there's no way. You know, they're...
Doug Shafer:
Interesting.
Tom Rinaldi:
...as I say, they, they dream it all the time, that they're still there.
Doug Shafer:
Oh.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, man.
Tom Rinaldi:
But it was thank you to the GI Bill that I got to, you know, pursue my, my, my career, if you will. I was going to either be a medical doctor or a veterinarian. Took all the prerequisite classes, and I realized that taking wine classes were, uh, as good as anything, uh, to become a, a medical or a veterinary doctor. So, uh, I met a lot of miserable doctors and a lot of happy winemakers...
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
...and decided not to even apply for, for med school. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
'Cause, uh, yeah, I was doing some research on you. So you went to Santa Rosa JC after the navy for a couple years. And then, uh-
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
And then moved up to Davis.
Tom Rinaldi:
That was a real education, too. I, I had some great classes at, at Santa Rosa JC, and got great s- grades, and so I got to choose whatever college I wanted to go to, and Davis was number one.
Doug Shafer:
Nice.
Tom Rinaldi:
And, uh, yeah. I had Maynard Amerine's last class. And, uh, Ann Noble's first class. Uh, they were kind of teaming up, if you will.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
So, it was, that was wonderful. Ralph Kunkee. Um, these-
Doug Shafer:
Yeah, I remember Kun-
Tom Rinaldi:
Uh, Cornelius Oh. All these guys just are historical figures in my mind.
Doug Shafer:
I remember Kunkee. I had Kunkee when I was there. But those other guys...
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
...had retired. He was great.
Tom Rinaldi:
We used to go out and, uh, have a beer across the street, the Graduate. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
I thought that was cool.
Doug Shafer:
The Graduate. I remember that place.
Tom Rinaldi:
Sure.
Doug Shafer:
Was that, uh, dollar pitcher night for beer on Thursday nights, right?
Tom Rinaldi:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
What, was that it, what it was? I remember that.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah, what could possibly go wrong?
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) Yeah, everything.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. In fact, I have a degree in malting and brewing with Dr. Lewis.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
Uh, as well as oenology, viniculture.
Doug Shafer:
Who, who else was at, uh, in the oenology program with you? Some of your classmates?
Tom Rinaldi:
Mike Martini.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
Uh, Bob Levy. Uh, Cathy Corison. Uh, I know I'm gonna leave somebody out. Uh, but one of the Wente boys, and...
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
Just, it was a phenomenal... Uh, Tim Mondavi. Yeah. We had a s- uh, spectacular class. I mean, they all knew exactly where they were gonna go work, you know? I-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
I wasn't sure. But I was very fortunate. I, I was one of, uh, about 20 applying for the, the job at Freemark Abbey. They were hiring a Davis graduate every year. And, um, I was one of the final two. And I'll say Rob Davis was, uh, the other one. And he-
Doug Shafer:
Rob Davis who went to Jordan Winery for a long time?
Tom Rinaldi:
Correct.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
Right back then, too, back in '76. When I was applying at, uh, Freemark Abbey. M- and so, he had, uh, interviewed with Jerry Luper first, and, um, on his way out, he's going, "Good luck. You'll need it."
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
And, uh, so I'm interviewing with Jerry. Fortunately, I, I, I was working in the lab at Davis, and s- so I knew all the, the, the programs. Uh, h- how to, you know, check SO2 or volatile acidity or you name it.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. Run a TA. Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
So, I, he couldn't trip me up on any of that stuff. So about 4:30 or quarter to 5, he's going, "Well, it's qu- you know, 4:30. Um, what are you gonna do the rest of the day?" I said, "Uh, I'm gonna go downtown to get a beer." He said, "Oh, c- may I join you?" And I said, "Sure!"
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
So we went downtown in St. Helena and got a beer. I guess at Ray's.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah, Ray's!
Tom Rinaldi:
And, uh, y- (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
I remember Ray's.
Tom Rinaldi:
And he said, "That's a great answer. You know, all these guys'll say, 'Oh, I got a couple of wines I gotta blend together.' You don't do blending after 4:00 in the afternoon! You know? It's time for a beer, you know?" And we came up with the term, "It takes a lot of good beer to make a great wine."And, uh, that basically got me the job, I think. I don't know. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
'Cause Jerry Luper, now, at that time, this is, you know, a few years before I got into the whole game, but, he was, uh, he, he was, wasn't he g- he was quite the famous winemaker at that time, right? So, it was-
Tom Rinaldi:
Indeed, yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
So-
Tom Rinaldi:
And, uh, he went on to, uh, Europe after, uh, you know, being out in Carneros for a while doing his own thing. Uh, moved out to Europe. And he, I really didn't get a full season with him. He left, uh...
Doug Shafer:
Huh.
Tom Rinaldi:
...before the season really got into f- bloom. And, uh, Larry Langbehn took over. And h- Larry was a Davis graduate the year before, and I thought, "Hmm. If I play my cards right, maybe I could become a winemaker here, you know?" (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
That's right. That's-
Tom Rinaldi:
But-
Doug Shafer:
That's the era where...
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
...people were becoming winemakers, like, instantly out of Davis.
Tom Rinaldi:
Something like that, yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Almost.
Tom Rinaldi:
Uh, I g- I got, uh, they promoted me over to, well, uh, p- transferred me over to Rutherford Hill that they'd just acquired.
Tom Rinaldi:
Oh, I was very frustrated trying to work there in the cellar. And so, after a week, you know, I went to, uh, Phil Baxter, the winemaker, and said, you know, "Hey, I quit." H- he said, "You only been here a week!"
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
I said, "No, this is crazy. I didn't go to Davis to, to, to do this. This is bucket..."
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
"...uh, bucket throwing." And, uh, so he said, "How'd you like to work in the lab?" I said, "Hmm. Okay." And that was the last I ever punched a clock. It was a full time job. I worked in the lab, basically doctoring wines and figuring out what's wrong with this one, well, how are we gonna make it better? And, uh, it was a real education, if you will.
Doug Shafer:
Got it.
Tom Rinaldi:
So that was a g- great opportunity.
Doug Shafer:
So-
Tom Rinaldi:
And he introduced me to Ernie Van Asperen, who was...
Doug Shafer:
Oh, okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
...just starting up Round Hill Winery.
Doug Shafer:
All right. I'm gonna st- I, I-
Tom Rinaldi:
So I, I was his original.
Doug Shafer:
'Cause I wanna get to Ernie, I wanna stop you for a second. So you did an internship at Freemark for what, a year or so, right?
Tom Rinaldi:
Just a, the one season.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. One season.
Tom Rinaldi:
Uh, it was almost a year. It went from, uh, June until bottling time in April, May. So, yeah. About a year.
Doug Shafer:
Gotta ask you a question. Was Nico there? Nico Shoch?
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. Sure was.
Doug Shafer:
Okay. Nico Shoch, who was, 'cause I remember he worked at Freemark under Larry Langbehn.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yes. Yep.
Doug Shafer:
'Cause Nico, my dad hired Nico as winemaker here at Shafer, when he f- uh, I think he hired him for the 1980 vintage. So, Nico was here...
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
...for about three years, and then he moved on and I came in in '83. But, uh, great guy. And, um...
Tom Rinaldi:
I agree.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. G- God, boy, strong as an ox, too. Good winemaker.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Um, and so, from there you went... So, Freemark and Rutherford Hill were connected. I remember that. Same ownership. So, they moved you over to Free- to Rutherford Hill with Phil Baxter, he was the winemaker.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
So, uh, here's another question for you. Were you there during the '79 harvest?
Tom Rinaldi:
Yes.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) 'Cause the seventy-
Tom Rinaldi:
Disaster.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. That was, I can't, well, I wasn't here. I can't remember the details. But I do know that dad picked his grapes really late and they were super, super ripe.
Tom Rinaldi:
Y- you know-
Doug Shafer:
Uh, I, I-
Tom Rinaldi:
I was, by then, I, that was my second year at Duckhorn, so...
Doug Shafer:
Oh, you were gone. Oh.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
See, y- .
Tom Rinaldi:
'Cause, uh, '78... One sec. I had just...
Doug Shafer:
Well, that's right. That's right.
Tom Rinaldi:
...kinda mixing them up.
Doug Shafer:
That's right.
Tom Rinaldi:
'Cause, uh, yeah. I would've been there for just, uh, '76, '77 harvest. Uh...
Doug Shafer:
Got it. Okay. 'Cause-
Tom Rinaldi:
And then, yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Okay. Sorry about that.
Tom Rinaldi:
Uh, '78, '79. '79, we didn't make a Cabernet that year.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
Basically just gave it up. Uh, I remember being in a vineyard with my, my wife, Beverly, uh, she was my girlfriend at the time, but, um, we were, we were watching them pick these, uh, grapes out in, uh, uh, Georges three in Rutherford, and they're pouring them into this gondola and you couldn't see the grapes. There was just so much liquid.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
We followed them to BV, and they tipped the gondola into the, this trough, and the trough just bled out. They let all the liquid go.
Doug Shafer:
Oh.
Tom Rinaldi:
And then they j- saved the grapes and put them into a destemmer and up into into the tanks. And it was the darnedest thing, watching that. And so, we, we said, now, I got the day off today, so let's, let's go downtown, get some, you know, steaks and barbecue them. And we go to Safeway, and we're crunching along the aisles. It's the darnedest thing. We're, we're crunching along and it's bags and bags of sugar these guys are carrying.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
A- and I asked the manager, I said, "What's going on with the sugar?" And he says, "I guess they're drinking a lot of coffee this year." You know -
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
"Oh, sure."
Doug Shafer:
So I wasn't around for the '79 harvest. So you're telling me it was probably a lot of rain and couldn't get ripeness, is what you're telling me.
Tom Rinaldi:
Exactly correct.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
It was the, the only disaster vintage I can recall in, you know, 45 vintages. So, yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Interesting. And here's my, what dad told me about our '79, 'cause we didn't have a winery. He was custom crushing, he custom crushed it up at, uh, Rutherford Hill with Phil Baxter. And-
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
I, this was Hillside stuff. Early years for dad. And our Hillside stuff comes in early, and for some reason, it must have been b- way before the rains, 'cause he couldn't, he couldn't get pickers and it was a bit of a hot spell, and he brought the stuff in at 25 or 26 bricks. And Baxter goes, "Well, we're gonna have to take care of that." So, the opposite situation happened.
Tom Rinaldi:
Wow.
Doug Shafer:
Instead of add- instead of adding sugar, they add a little, little, uh, H2O to get that sugar back down. So, interesting.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
'Cause I didn't, I didn't know the rest of the harvest was such a d- was such a mess with the rain and cold weather.
Tom Rinaldi:
It was. We did bring in a little bit of Cabernet from up on Howell Mountain, uh, but most, most of what we brought in was Merlot, and that was, uh, uh, spared the w- the weather. It was, you know, like, y- yeah. Like, y- you heard, it was a heat s- heat wave before...
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
...the rain came. And when the rain came, it, it really didn't let up. It, it just went all the way through the rest of the time. So, the people who were picking then, th- they tried everything. They tried helicopters with, uh, w- leaf blowers, you name it, to try to just get rid of the water. Uh, it, it was just basically a disaster.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, man. And you mentioned Beverly. So you guys were dating? How'd you guys meet?
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. We met in Calistoga, believe it or not. I was sitting down with Ben Falk and Jon Axehelm and having a, we had two or three bottles of wine open at the table, and, uh, we're tasting them. And, uh, and she was walking by and they're tapping on the window. They knew her.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
So she came in, uh, in our old spot, you know, the Calistoga Inn. And sat down and drinking some wine with us, you know? And all of a sudden we're playing footsie under the table...
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
...and I got her phone number, and... But we never did hook up. It was the darnedest thing. We met again in, uh, Las Vegas for one of those oenology conventions, and, uh, put two and two together. Eventually I got ahold of her and we went out on a date to the Cameo to see the Godfather, part one and two.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
And missed part of the beginning, so we had to go back again (laughs) the next day. I had a motorcycle back then, uh, so that was my, my transportation. And, hmm, pretty much got married in nineteen-sev- uh, b- b- '81.
Doug Shafer:
Okay. Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
Mother's Day.
Doug Shafer:
Beautiful.
Tom Rinaldi:
And, um, yeah. That was the last of the motorcycle days. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) So, um, and I, I interrupted you earlier. You mentioned, uh, Ernie Van Asperen. So, you met, you met him when you were up at, uh, Rutherford Hill?
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. We actually had lunch together, d- Phil wanted m- to introduce, uh, Ernie to me, and, um, Ernie had a, uh, a wine in a decanter.
Doug Shafer:
Uh-huh.
Tom Rinaldi:
And he's pouring it for me, and he, he wants to know, "What do you think of this wine?" And I g- I'm smelling it, and just going, "I think I know this wine. Uh, is this Silver Oak?" And he's g- he's looking around like, like I got a tip from the maitre d' or something, you know?
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
And he goes, "Yeah." H- I go, "Yeah, I think this is '70, '72, uh, '72, uh, Silver Oak." Uh, 'cause we had made that at fr- Franciscan, and I had put in a spell there.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tom Rinaldi:
And, uh, tasted out of the barrel a few times. And it had that distinctive bread character.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tom Rinaldi:
So, he was blown away. Uh, I became this palate, if you will.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
And, uh, yeah. There, so, uh, we, we'd go up to, uh, um, Healdsberg and different wineries and I'd get to meet all the rock stars up there, um, and taste through the wines that were available in bulk. And the ones I, I liked, I'd keep close to me, and the ones I didn't like, I'd push away. So it would be, A, E, and F I liked. And so, he would shoo me out of the room, let me go take a tour of the facility while he did a, a negotiation with the winemakers.
Doug Shafer:
Huh.
Tom Rinaldi:
And, uh, come up with a price, and that's, that was the beginning of Round Hill. We, we did a '74 Cabernet to die for. It was just wonderful. And we were able to sell it for a song, too, and still make money.
Doug Shafer:
So, Round Hill, Ernie Van Asperen started Round Hill, and his other career, that they, I think went on for the whole time, was he had wine stores, right? Um -
Tom Rinaldi:
Yes. Ernie's.
Doug Shafer:
Call, called Ernie's.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
And a n- a number of them, as I remember.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. Y- yeah. I got to work in most of them, in fact all of them. Uh, where was one, down in San Bruno, w- uh, Redwood City, up in, uh, uh, San Francisco, and up here, in St. Helena.
Doug Shafer:
That's right. I remember that.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah, right there on Inglewood.
Doug Shafer:
And he, but then, so, when he started Round Hill, he was basically, help me with this one. He was buying bulk wine and bottling it under the Round Hill label, or was he crushing grapes also?
Tom Rinaldi:
No. No grapes.
Doug Shafer:
Interesting.
Tom Rinaldi:
Uh, we would just get bulk. Yeah. In fact, uh, th- it was out at Lodi Lane, um, the, oh god. Marian Green's, um, h- home right next door, and there was a w- a, basically a warehouse, and it w- we, we bottled there.
Doug Shafer:
So he was, like, the first Negociant w- guy, in a way.
Tom Rinaldi:
Correct.
Doug Shafer:
Or one of th-
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
One of the early, for sure.
Doug Shafer:
He's, okay. It was the Round Hi- and so, so you star- at that point, you're working with him. Or you help found that whole winery? Is that what you do?
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
Tom Rinaldi:
I was original winemaker, so, um, I'd, I'd make the blending decisions and, uh, you know, he'd come up with basically the quantities, and, um, that was it, that was that. Uh, Charlie Abella was my right hand man. He was a very sharp guy.
Doug Shafer:
I, I was gonna ask you about Charlie, 'cause I remember-
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Dad, Dad and, Dad loved Charlie, and I met him a couple times.
Tom Rinaldi:
He was a great guy.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
Oh my god. He was just wonderful.
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah, he was one of my best men at, uh, my wedding. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
Um...
Tom Rinaldi:
Along with Bob Levy. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
And I remember, the only time I was at Round Hill, I was, uh, that's where I met Charlie Abella, I met Doug Manning. It was Christmas time. I was home from Davis, and Dad-
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
It was, it was the Christmas of '78. So, you weren't there, but, um-
Tom Rinaldi:
Right.
Doug Shafer:
Dad had, he was aging a '78 Cab, first wine he made. It was, uh, crushed it at Markham, they made it at Round Hill, 'cause he knew Ernie and Charlie.
Tom Rinaldi:
Sure.
Doug Shafer:
So, it was, like, a custom crush. 1000 cases. So, um, he said, "Well, I'm going up to rack my wine." I'm home from Davis. I said, "Okay." He goes, "Come along." So I'm up there learning how to wash barrels with Charlie Abella and Doug Manning. And then r- um, it was lunch break. We're sitting down having some sandwiches, and these guys pulled some of the, the '78 Cab, the, um, Shafer, a- out of the tank that we were racking to, just to have with lunch. And, and you know, I d- I didn't know if it was good or not. And, um, I remember Doug Manning going, "This is really good." (laughs) So...
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
And, uh, that was my first, uh, experience with our '78 Cab. And it was like, I didn't know what was going on. I mean, we, you know...
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
...went back to barrels and went back to school. So that was the, the birth of that. How funny.
Tom Rinaldi:
That really put Shafer on the map, too. That, that wine was spectacular. There's no question about it. We, we rated it as flawless at, uh, up there in Calistoga.
Doug Shafer:
Well, thank you. But, uh, speaking of '78, so how did you get from Round Hill to Duckhorn?
Tom Rinaldi:
The darnedest thing. Uh, I, I was good friends with, uh, v- Ric Forman and with Phil Baxter and w- let's see. Someone else who Dan Duckhorn was talking to, saying you, he needed a winemaker, and they all mentioned my name.
Doug Shafer:
Huh.
Tom Rinaldi:
So, he wanted to, to, to meet with me, and I happened to be going by the winery on my motorcycle, and I pull up, 'cause he's out there working in, uh, some trees. And so, we had a little discussion and, uh, the funniest thing is that he, I said, "Well, you know, I'll, I'll consult for you," he goes, "Consult? Hell! I want somebody to make the wine!" You know? (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
So, okay. So I got the job on the spot. And, uh, that was, uh, June of '78. There really wasn't a facility there. He has just bought a, a press and a couple of tanks and, you know, just trying to make something happen. And we, we bought a, a, a destemmer and, and went from there. I mean, it was a little basket press. I still have a picture of myself and s- you know, kneeling down, taking a, a sample out of the, out of this little press. But, uh well, it was an interesting beginning. Fortunately, it was 1978, and '76 was hot, er, hot, awful, dry drought.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tom Rinaldi:
'77, same thing.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tom Rinaldi:
'78 was a perfect vintage. And then of course '79 was the disas- disaster.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tom Rinaldi:
And, uh, we, fortunately, my, my good friend Ric Forman turned us on to Three Palms. He didn't have to do that by any stretch of the imagination. He was winemaker at Sterling. And we had no intention of making a Merlot. Uh, "Merlot? You know, what?" And so, we brought it in anyway, and it was knockout. Um, and, and I didn't know the rules at the time. I shoulda known.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
But I put in 15 percent Beatty Howell Mountain Cabernet into it.
Doug Shafer:
Oh.
Tom Rinaldi:
We had a bottle, yeah, and a councilor, you know, our council's going, uh, "So, Tom, what else is in there?" I go, "Well, I got 15 percent Beatty Howell Mountain Cabernet," and he goes, "No, you, come on."
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
And I go, "No, seriously." He goes, "No."
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
And I, uh, so, he opens up chapter and verse, there it is. 95 percent, same as vintage. Uh oh. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tom Rinaldi:
So, we gotta use up by BATF. Uh, one time only. And, uh, so we got away with it. And thank goodness, 'cause to th- to this day, that wine is still alive and well.
Doug Shafer:
It's a gorgeous wine. It was 15 percent, it was Merlot, or Cab?
Tom Rinaldi:
Cabernet, 15 percent.
Doug Shafer:
But it was a-
Tom Rinaldi:
And the rest of it was Merlot Three Palms.
Doug Shafer:
But it was a different vintage? Or same vintage?
Tom Rinaldi:
Same vintage.
Doug Shafer:
Got it. Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Oh.
Tom Rinaldi:
If it says Three Palms Vineyard, it, well, it, just like Hillside select-
Doug Shafer:
Oh, it's gotta be 95 percent. That's right.
Tom Rinaldi:
Correct.
Doug Shafer:
Got it.
Tom Rinaldi:
Whoops.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
So, so Ric Forman, who was winemaker at the time at Sterling, and he was a, he was a stud winemaker in those days. He was the guy, one of the guys. And, um...
Tom Rinaldi:
Absolutely.
Doug Shafer:
And, uh, they were, I remember Sterling had a Three Palms Vineyard Merlot, I think, 'cause...
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
And so, he turned you guys onto that. So, I, for some reason I thought D- Dan was crazy about Merlot and really wanted to do it. So that wasn't the case?
Tom Rinaldi:
He became crazy about it, I'll say that much. And he wanted to do it for sure, 'cause he and Ric did get to travel tog- to, to France together.
Doug Shafer:
Okay 'cause it, uh, a lot of folks might not know, Merlot back in late '70s, very few people if anyone made a varietal Merlot. Merlot was used mostly for blending. So I can remember I was working at Lake Spring with Randy Mason. That was '81, '82, and they were starting to make a Merlot, but it was still kinda new. So you guys, you know, were trailblazers, and that first wine, '78 Merlot, was, from Duckhorn, was absolutely amazing. And it had 15 percent Cab. That's good to know. (laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
Whoopsie!
Doug Shafer:
A minute ago.
Tom Rinaldi:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
I love it.
Tom Rinaldi:
That make all the difference in the world, too. I think if it were, been 100 percent, uh, Merlot, it would've been a head scratcher. And to this day they don't make 100 percent Merlot out of there. It's, uh, it's got all five varietals growing in the vineyard.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tom Rinaldi:
And it's all owned by Duckhorn now.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
I kinda made a little joke a while back to, that I wanted to get some of the grapes, and (laughs) they kinda look at me y- dumbfounded.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
But, um, uh, yeah. That, I made it at Provenance, as a matter of fact, I was c- making a Three Palms Merlot and a Three Palms Cabernet. I had access to the fruit. But then Diageo just chickened out from the prices and they let it go.
Doug Shafer:
How big, how big a vineyard is it? How many acres?
Tom Rinaldi:
80.
Doug Shafer:
80. Okay. I didn't realize...
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
...it was that big. Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
It's all rock, too.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
But there's, fortunately there's water, and, uh, yeah. In fact, uh, to plant it, they were using fire hoses to blast a hole into the rock.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
Um, and then filling it up with sand and, and, and, and real dirt. And, and a, a- and a root stock.
Doug Shafer:
Interesting. Interesting. So...
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
So, Duckhorn, f- first release was a seventy- I think that was the first release from Duckhorn, it was '78 Merlot.
Tom Rinaldi:
Correct.
Doug Shafer:
Released in '81, probably, thereabouts. And, uh, was that the only wine from Duckhorn in the beginning? Was there Cabernet, too?
Tom Rinaldi:
No. We made a Cabernet as well.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
The Cabernet was, uh, very nice. V- it was, uh, it was from, uh, um, Spottswoode Vineyard. And also, uh, down in your area. I can't remember his name. Dick.
Doug Shafer:
Uh, S- Steltzner. Steltzner.
Tom Rinaldi:
Dick Steltzner. Correct.
Doug Shafer:
Right. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tom Rinaldi:
Thank you.
Doug Shafer:
You bet.
Tom Rinaldi:
And, that was, uh, that was fascinating stuff. We only sold it for $10.50, but we went crazy with the Merlot and jacked it all the way up to $12.50.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
S- it was so funny, because there'd be some people who'd say, "Oh, I'm not gonna b- I don't know, my husband would never drink Merlot." I said, "Well, don't tell him it's Merlot." And especially after that Sideways movie came out, um, and, you know, they'd come back and just say, "You're right. He loves it." You know? (laughs) You didn't tell him it was Merlot.
Doug Shafer:
Well, I was gonna ask you about that, because y- you know, you were really on the front lines in the beginning. You know, a t- a totally kind of unknown varietal by itself, Merlot, you know, bursts on the scene, and, you know, kinda meanders around in the '80s. People more familiar with it. And then the '90s, it just goes nuts. Rock star. You know, and then all of a sudden becoming kind of a, you know, a punchline from a, from a movie. I mean, uh...
Tom Rinaldi:
Well, what had happened...
Doug Shafer:
What's your take on that?
Tom Rinaldi:
...was that Merlot was already on the ropes. They were making it down in, uh, M- Monterrey, and Lodi, and...calling it Merlot, and it was Blanc.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tom Rinaldi:
And, uh, it was, really it was bringing the name down. There was just too much of it, and it was growing in the wrong spots. Uh, it needs good drainage. If you don't have good drainage, you don't really have Merlot.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tom Rinaldi:
And so, it was getting kinda beat up as a varietal. M- we fortunately had a good reputation, a good name, and we never just bottled something just to call it Merlot. So, that, that was a crucial part of our success during that, that time where it really was a, kind of a joke, if you will. You couldn't even give the stuff away in Los Angeles.
Tom Rinaldi:
But the, the punchline in there was not supposed to really be, uh, taken seriously. Um, I mean, you wouldn't want that guy Miles to be your, your, uh, your, maitre d'. (laughs) So, he's drinking out of the spit bucket, remember?
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
So, um, yeah. So, uh, it, it was not meant to be serious, but it, it was taken seriously. You know? "None of that blanking Merlot." And, uh...
Doug Shafer:
Yeah, I, I remember hearing the story that it was l- uh, it was, uh, just a, it was like they were doing 10 or 12 takes and it was the last shot of the night and they were all hungry, so he was just kinda letting loose with that, ripped on, ripped with that line.
Tom Rinaldi:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
And then they c- they took it back in the editing and kept it, which was...
Tom Rinaldi:
Yep.
Doug Shafer:
...unfortunate, 'cause it kinda...
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
...hurt sales for a lot of people. But...
Tom Rinaldi:
Ah, it's all right.
Doug Shafer:
...I, I think in the long run it's, it's done good things for Merlot, because, uh, um, all the folks that were making Merlot maybe not as good as it should be kind of, a lot of the Negociant guys went away, stopped making it.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
They started making, they started making Pinot Noir. And, uh, so now Mer- you know, y-
Tom Rinaldi:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
A f- if you see a varietal Merlot out there, chances are it's gonna be pretty darn good, because if it's not, you know, th- it doesn't have a chance to start, it doesn't have to a chance to beg- be- to begin with. So, um, it'll, it's there.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah, I've taken it seriously all my, my career.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tom Rinaldi:
And, uh, you know, we're making a Pellet Estate Merlot, and it's, it's good enough it stands on its own. It don't need to add anything to it. Sometimes I will add some, uh, Cabernet Sauvignon, but it's a, uh, estate out there on the base of Spring Mountain. That stuff, just a knockout.
Doug Shafer:
Hmm.
Tom Rinaldi:
I'm, I'm still enjoying it, you know. Still enjoying making Merlot.
Doug Shafer:
Good. Good. So, 22 years at Duckhorn. How... And it was a great, great run. Why'd, why'd it work so well? What was, what worked? What was the trick at Duckhorn? 'Cause it's a wonderful place.
Tom Rinaldi:
Well, I, I would say we, we focused on quality, not quantity. Um, and you know, I w- I was meticulous on, on making sure that we didn't bottle anything that we weren't gonna be proud of. That's why we came up with, you know, names like Decoy and Migration and so forth. These were second labels, and, uh, weren't supposed to shine like the Duckhorn, uh, lo- m- n- the m- uh, our moniker, you know.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tom Rinaldi:
Our, our, our, our home base. Uh, so, th- that was very important, uh, and we had a good run of vineyards and meticulous, uh, management. Um, very, very pleased with the, the Madrigal, uh, connection we had, and, uh, Jess Madrigal in particular. Uh, they were, they were meticulous on making sure that we got all the quality we could.
Doug Shafer:
And that's, that's Madrigal, that's Jess Madrigal and t- their, their, uh, vineyard. Vineyard management company.
Tom Rinaldi:
That's right.
Doug Shafer:
Right. So they take care of you guys.
Tom Rinaldi:
And I'm still up there making wine. (laughs).
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
Tom Rinaldi:
That's my, that's my go to place for, for, uh, Pellet, for my own, and yeah. We're starting a new wine company, uh, called Double Plus. We'll have Sauvignon Blanc and cabernet, uh, coming in.
Doug Shafer:
Cool. So, that's-
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah, I agree.
Doug Shafer:
Th- that's your own, that's your own, uh, your own deal coming up.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah, and w- we're a legal entity.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
(laughs) I do a lot of things under the radar, you know, for family and friends, but, uh, this one's gonna be a legal entity.
Doug Shafer:
Cool. So, after Duckhorn you made a move. Tell me about that one.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. I got the opportunity to, to go to Hewitt w- uh, d- Hewitt Vineyard, and, and use Bill Hewitt's name. Uh, Mr. Hewitt had passed away, and the opportunity came up, uh, and they were really trying to get me to, to interview with this Tom Selfridge guy, and so I finally said, "Look, you know, we'll have lunch together in, in Yountville. I don't wanna do it in St. Helena, have people talking and wondering." So we had lunch and, uh, we go out to the vineyard after lunch, and it's just c- phenomenal. Phenomenal.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tom Rinaldi:
And he's got me up at the house, he's pointing around to the vineyard, and he said, "All of this would be yours." You know, it's like the devil...
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
...tempting Jesus. And, uh...
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
And I'm, I'm looking at it, I s- I said, "Well, you know what, tell you the truth, um, I'm not, I'm not even flying the plane anymore. I'm, I'm on autopilot at, at Duckhorn."
Doug Shafer:
Hmm.
Tom Rinaldi:
Uh, we'd acquired Goldeneye. W- we had Paraduxx. We had all these facilities and winemakers, and I'm just basically looking over their shoulder, k- kind of steering them around a little bit, but I wasn't really flying the plane.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tom Rinaldi:
And so, this would've been an opportunity to start all over again, and, uh, with this... So I said, "Throw my na- my, my hat into the ring," and he said, "Well, you're the only hat." (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
So, I said, "Let's wait till after the wine auction in, uh, 2000 till we make any kind of a mention of it." But I had already hinted to Dan and Margaret that I was leaving, and they were breaking up, too. So, um, they never got it until, you know, basically the wine auction. And I mentioned it to Mike Thompson, our congressman, and he kinda like, his jaw drops. He goes, "You can't leave Duckhorn! You are Duckhorn!" (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) Well-
Tom Rinaldi:
And I, it was a great opportunity to work with the Hewitt fruit, and, and then I didn't realize it, but Provenance was there, too. We had a huge contract with Andy Beckstoffer bringing in Merlot and cabernet from all around the valley.
Doug Shafer:
Okay. Interesting. No, I remember when that news broke that you were leaving Duckhorn, and we were all, um, yeah. 'Cause Rinaldi is Duckhorn. Um...
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
But, uh, good for you. That takes a lot of guts, and, uh, how fun to get back in the... What was it like to get back in the driver's seat?
Tom Rinaldi:
Oh, it was, you know, to tell you the truth, we, the first couple of years were, I wasn't really in the driver's seat. Uh, we were doing custom crushing. Our first year was at Cardinale and that was 2000, and then 2001, we were at Andretti and Laird.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tom Rinaldi:
And then by 2002, we acquired that building that became, uh, it was Beaucanon. It became Provenance. And, uh, A- August of 2002, we had purchased it and moved in, and we did the whole harvest there. It was the darnedest thing. It was exciting.
Doug Shafer:
Hmm.
Tom Rinaldi:
That became very exciting. Yeah. Interesting to look back, too, 'cause I've been replaced I think five times now.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
Since I left in November of 2014. And, um, the same thing happened at Duckhorn. Um...
Doug Shafer:
Yeah, there's been a few. S-
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. Tony Biagi didn't take over like I thought he would. Uh, Mark Beringer did.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tom Rinaldi:
And Mark's over at Beringer now. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
He's at Beringer, right.
Tom Rinaldi:
Where he, uh, belongs.
Doug Shafer:
I know.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
So, Provenance for 14 years. Another great run. Good for you.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah, indeed.
Doug Shafer:
And, uh, and Hewitt. And I think you, you'd got, Cab got, uh, in the top ten Spectators one year, back in '13.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah, it was number four.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
In the world, and, uh, number one Cabernet. And, uh, that was cool. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
That was a 2010 vintage.
Doug Shafer:
Which is a -
Tom Rinaldi:
We made a Double Plus that year that was even higher scoring, but there wasn't enough quantity to, to, uh, to, uh, get that kind of score.
Doug Shafer:
Aren't you am- you know, 2010, aren't you amazed how good the 2010s are? Because at the time, it was a really tough harvest. I remember just being, "Aw," you know, I just, the weather wasn't cooperating. We couldn't, ripeness was, uh, there, it wasn't there. I mean, I just remember Elias and I were pulling our hair out, and then the t- and then the, you know, a year and a half later you're bottling these wines, going, "God, these are beautiful." So-
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
You just never know. Kinda funny.
Tom Rinaldi:
Really. There was something about how the, the wines got along with the barrels, I think, that year. Uh, d- that was...
Doug Shafer:
Hmm.
Tom Rinaldi:
...a crucial part. We're really getting meticulous about the barrel selection, the toasting, the works. And, and that's a crucial ingredient. It, it's much more important than most people would ever imagine. And, um, uh, uh, I think they played well together that, that vintage.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. I know I, yeah. I spent a lot of time with, uh, coopers, coopers and selection, and um, but t-
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah, in retrospect...
Doug Shafer:
That technol- technology's gotten -
Tom Rinaldi:
...the '11 and the, and even the '08, and, uh, were, those were more difficult...
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tom Rinaldi:
...vintages to, to, you know, put together than the, than the '10.
Doug Shafer:
Right. Um, so after '14, you retired. So, how's retirement going?
Tom Rinaldi:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
It's fun. Honest to god, I, you know, um, I don't have...
Doug Shafer:
No, I mean-
Tom Rinaldi:
...to get out of bed in the morning if I don't wanna. You know? It's just, uh...
Doug Shafer:
You're-
Tom Rinaldi:
It, it's been a good ride.
Doug Shafer:
You're not retired.
Tom Rinaldi:
And I'm up in Washington...
Doug Shafer:
You, you're not retired.
Tom Rinaldi:
Y- I know.
Doug Shafer:
You're busy.
Tom Rinaldi:
I know.
Doug Shafer:
Tell me, so, tell m- I wanna hear, I wanna hear about everything. So, Washington? What else?
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. I'm, uh, with, uh, Stan Keeterman, our gas guy. Uh, got a beautiful vineyard across from, uh, Oakville Crossroad.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tom Rinaldi:
And, uh, and then I'm doing the Pellet Estate, and, um, p- oh, um, Stout Family Vineyards, too.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
We just bottled a nice Sauvignon Blanc. Um, and, nyeh, this, uh, this new one, the Alpha Omega, uh, what am I saying. Uh, Double Plus.
Doug Shafer:
Double Plus.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
And, uh...
Doug Shafer:
So, uh, consulting. Besides not having to get out of bed at any particular time, what else do you like about it?
Tom Rinaldi:
Well, I, I make the f- the final decisions for blending. I, that's, that's a crucial part in my life anyway. Uh, so that, that one is, is something I've been very blessed, uh, to, to have the ability to, to separate what I th- I'm convinced is gonna be very popular from something that probably won't work out. And, uh, so it, it, that part is crucial. Um, I do that every year, uh, up in Washington. I'll, I'll mark the barrels, uh, with these different s- emblems or symbols.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Right.
Tom Rinaldi:
And, um, and then come back, uh, a- and see how they get together. How they blend together. And then we'll c- come back a month later and do the final, final blends. And, um, that's, that's my call. Uh, they, they all let me do as I wish.
Doug Shafer:
Huh.
Tom Rinaldi:
I'm a partner as well as their consulting winemaker.
Doug Shafer:
That's, that's-
Tom Rinaldi:
And, it-
Doug Shafer:
That's super.
Tom Rinaldi:
It's been very successful.
Doug Shafer:
That's super.
Tom Rinaldi:
In fact, I just got a couple of cases and there's two more on their way of the Rosé. We, we finished it out. It's my summer wine. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
Nice.
Tom Rinaldi:
I just love it. Got the twist off, and it's Syrah and Grenache. And, uh, it's the bleed. And, uh, it's salmon color perfect. It's wonderful.
Doug Shafer:
Well, good. So, when I'm, I'm, I'm buzzing home on Pratt Avenue, one of these evenings, I'll stop by. 'Cause, uh...
Tom Rinaldi:
I'll have one chilled for you, ready to go. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
You got it. 'Cause you're, I pass your house, you're my short cut. And I'm trying to keep the s-
Tom Rinaldi:
Good show.
Doug Shafer:
I'm trying to keep the speed fairly down. I'm working on it.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
I'm working on it. Um...
Tom Rinaldi:
It's 35.
Doug Shafer:
I know.
Tom Rinaldi:
And we wanted to make it 25, like the rest of town, but that's all right.
Doug Shafer:
Uh, y-
Tom Rinaldi:
You know, people still go 50.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. It's rural. Come on. We're country folks.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Um, but I gotta ask you about something else. Besides wine and your passion for wine, you are probably the most famous cyclist in the Napa Valley. You are... When did you start, when did this passion start? All you do is ride your bike.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. It, it was d- I would have to say it was probably during the Davis days. Um, it was after I had, uh, I, I c- say my seventh knee operation.
Doug Shafer:
Oh. (laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
Uh, believe it or not. And, uh, I just took on the bicycle as a, a way I might, my p- the doctor did the, oh, he did a cadaver, replacement for my ligaments, and, uh, did a micro-fracturing of my kneecap.
Doug Shafer:
Hmm.
Tom Rinaldi:
And, uh, he, you know, I told him I'm sick and tired of going to physiotherapy, and he said, "Well, just ride your bicycle." And you g- and I go, "Well, Doc, you know, either I'm riding up and down the highway with the drunks or I'm up in some serious hills." "Yeah, well, go up in the serious hills."
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
I go, "Well, aren't you worried that I'll overdo it?" And he goes, "No. You can't overdo it." "Oh yeah?" And so that was like a challenge.
Doug Shafer:
Okay. (laughs) Well, because-
Tom Rinaldi:
Uh, it really got into my, my blood, no question about it.
Doug Shafer:
Well, it is.
Tom Rinaldi:
I, I, I've done 10 death rides, and that's-
Doug Shafer:
What's, what's a death ride?
Tom Rinaldi:
Out of Markleeville.
Doug Shafer:
What's a-
Tom Rinaldi:
It's a, you v- go over Monitor Pass down into Nevada, back over Monitor Pass and then into Hope Valley, and then up, uh, Ebbetts Pass, and then down, and then b- uh, to Strawberry and then back around, up and down, and then you do Carson Pass up to the top and back down. And it's, uh...
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
...130 miles and 16,000 feet of climbing and it's just nuts.
Doug Shafer:
You done 10 of those?
Tom Rinaldi:
10 of them.
Doug Shafer:
How long's-
Tom Rinaldi:
One more, and-
Doug Shafer:
How long's it take to, how long's it take to do that?
Tom Rinaldi:
Best time is about nine hours.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
And typically closer to 10.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, man. You know, uh, you know, I started riding. I remember I called you a few years ago, 'cause I was saying, you know, "How do you wear these bike pants?" Instead of laughing at me, you laughed with me. I really appreciate that, by the way, Tom.
Tom Rinaldi:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
I've never thanked you for that. Most people would've said, "Don't you know what you're talking about, Shafer?" You were like, "Shafer, here's what you do. You, just the pa- ba-ba-ba-ba-bum," you were great. Um...
Tom Rinaldi:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
But I remember talking to guys early on when I was, uh, I'd be really proud 'cause I rode to Calistoga and back and, you know, averaged, you know, 15 miles per hour. And somebody said, I don't think it was you, but they said, "Well, have you, have you gone up over into Pope Valley?" I said, "No." They said, "Why not?" I go, "Well, there's a real big hill there." (laughs) And they said w- (laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
They said, "Well, for the good riding, you gotta get, you gotta climb one of these hills and get out into the..."
Tom Rinaldi:
It-
Doug Shafer:
"...uh, wilderness out there."
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
But I do wanna ask you one question about cycling, because I heard a story that you did a midnight ride to Tahoe once. Is that true?
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. It was-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) Tell me that one.
Tom Rinaldi:
We, it was a full moon, and we went to Ana's Cantina and had a beer, uh, Dave Smith, had a beer, I had a beer, a Guinness.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
And Lorelai, uh...
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
Tuttle had a diet coke.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
And we got on our bicycles and went down to the trail and then down to 128 and up to Lake Hennessey and then to Lake Berryessa and kept going.
Doug Shafer:
D- was that the plan, or did just, you got up there and just-
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Okay, that was the plan. You just... (laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
We got to, 'cause Dave has a, a, a nice little home up in Tahoe, uh, north shore, as well as down here in, uh, Napa Valley. And he had a place in Costa Rica, too.
Doug Shafer:
So you rode to-
Tom Rinaldi:
That being said, um, uh-
Doug Shafer:
You rode the d- all, you rode all night long in the full moon, to t- Lake Tahoe?
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. And then, sunrise, uh, in, uh, Grass Valley area.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
And then, uh, the climb up to Truckee. And we got to Truckee and we're having a big breakfast.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
And coffee and, you know, just thinking, "Well, this is good enough. Let's, let's get a ride the way back."
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
And, uh, "Nah. Let's go."
Doug Shafer:
No. You rode-
Tom Rinaldi:
So we just kept going.
Doug Shafer:
You rode... Oh, you-
Tom Rinaldi:
So, we got to, uh, sh- north shore, 198 miles.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
And I'm looking at the odometer, and it just clicked over to 199, and I'm thinking, "I oughta go round the block- ah, forget about it." I mean...
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
I don't have to do 200, after-
Doug Shafer:
Ah.
Tom Rinaldi:
After all.
Doug Shafer:
That's a, how long a, how long did that one take? How many hours?
Tom Rinaldi:
That was, we got in about 1:00 in the afternoon.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
So, we left at 10:30, and that, yeah. It was 14 hours.
Doug Shafer:
Ah. You're crazy.
Tom Rinaldi:
15 hours. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
You're crazy. I love you. I love you.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. We had a masseuse waiting for us too. We, uh, each of us got a nice massage afterward.
Doug Shafer:
You need that. You need that.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
So, tell me-
Tom Rinaldi:
And a lot of pizza.
Doug Shafer:
Tell me about Double Plus. Are, can people buy these wines yet? Are they out?
Tom Rinaldi:
No, no, not yet.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
We, we haven't even, uh, we haven't even h- picked our first grape yet.
Doug Shafer:
Okay. Okay. So, it's coming.
Tom Rinaldi:
So, this is something for the future.
Doug Shafer:
Tell me about the name. What's the name mean?
Tom Rinaldi:
Well, it's my symbol for, when I'm going to barrels, and I, I, I'll give them a check if, if that's good enough, a plus if it's really nice, or a minus if I don't think it's all that good, or w- god forbid, X, you know, if it's got brettanomyces or some flaw.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tom Rinaldi:
I'll give it an X. But every now and then I'll find one, ooh. Give it an H, I call it. A two plus.
Doug Shafer:
A Double Plus. Oh, this is-
Tom Rinaldi:
And, uh, we tried to call our high end, um, Hewitt, Ambassador, 'cause he was the ambassador to Jamaica once he retired as, uh, John Deere's, uh, President and CEO.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
So, we wanted to call it Ambassador, but that's the wine I'm working with in, in Washington. We have to call it Ambassador Wine of Washington, because there's an Ambassador Vineyard that, uh, Zellerbach owns in Sonoma County. So, to make sure there's no confusion there. So, th- the company would not allow us to use, uh, the Ambassador, uh, as, uh, you know, an indication of high end.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Tom Rinaldi:
So I said, "How about Double Plus?" And boom, it stuck. Yeah, there we go.
Doug Shafer:
You know...
Tom Rinaldi:
But they never trademarked it.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, you gotta trademark it. And I got to-
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah!
Doug Shafer:
I'll tell you why you gotta trademark, because, um, I do something that no one knows about except Elias. So, when we're tasting blends, you know, blind- we got five or six wines in front of us. Or even, uh, even like a, if we're tasting competition. Um, you know, I don't get into too many, you know, adjectives, it's just mostly I'm just like, you know, quality of nose. What's the aroma like? What's the mouth like? You know, just nose and mouth, nose and mouth.
Tom Rinaldi:
Sure.
Doug Shafer:
And I rank them. And I use, uh, little symbols (laughs) and there's, starting at the bottom is two, two negatives, two minus sign like an equals sign.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Next better would be just one minus sign. Uh, okay would just be, like, a check. I might use a check...
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
...or I might just use the word okay.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
If I like it, I give it a plus, whether it's nose or mouth, and if I really like it, I give it two pluses. (laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
There you go.
Doug Shafer:
I got the same thing. Tommy, I'm doing the same thing!
Tom Rinaldi:
Bingo. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
All right. You can give me, I, I can work for you. I'll consult with you.
Tom Rinaldi:
There you go.
Doug Shafer:
You do the final blends, I'll just, I'll just go v- you know, sample grapes for you.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. You, you give them the check or the double plus. We-
Doug Shafer:
Okay. (laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
That's, isn't that great? I, I just love it. We, we have, own the LLC now, you know. We just applied for it and we got it, so...
Doug Shafer:
Good.
Tom Rinaldi:
It's, it, the rest is history.
Doug Shafer:
Good, good, good. Well, go trademark it, 'cause I might take it. I like it. No, I'm not gonna do that.
Tom Rinaldi:
It's done.
Doug Shafer:
Okay, good.
Tom Rinaldi:
It's done.
Doug Shafer:
Good.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
All right, Mr. Rinaldi. Thank you so much for taking the time today. And-
Tom Rinaldi:
My pleasure, indeed. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
And, uh, great, great to hear your stories and, uh, I miss seeing you, I miss seeing you on the road, so, uh, I'll see you out there on the, on the cycling days one of these days soon. Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
Yeah. And one of these days we gotta refresh that, that story about your, uh, d- idea to make a Port out of Hillside Select. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) Yeah, that was, yeah. That didn't go over really well with my Dad, but that's a...
Tom Rinaldi:
No kidding. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
Okay. (laughs)
Tom Rinaldi:
I can still hear the screaming.
Doug Shafer:
Oh god. Yeah.
Tom Rinaldi:
All right.
Doug Shafer:
His quote was, "You took 200 gallons of my Cabernet and did this to it?" It was not good.
Tom Rinaldi:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
It was not good. Um...
Tom Rinaldi:
What's your marketing plan? Oh, boy.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, yeah. A couple of rookies, Elias and me. All right, Tommy. Take care. Great talking to you and, and be safe out there. We'll see you.
Tom Rinaldi:
Fare thee well.
Doug Shafer:
All right.
Tom Rinaldi:
Bye bye.
Doug Shafer:
Bye.