Full Transcript
Doug Shafer:
So here we are everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Taste. I'm Doug Shafer and we have a special guest today. Um, Robin Lail, a true original longtime Napa Valley native, not too many Napa Valley natives around here. Um, she and I, we've seen each other for years coming in and going. She, at various Napa Valley events. She knew my mom Bett, she was a dear friend of my dad, John Shafer, knows my sister, runs, hangs with my wife Annette. Robin, welcome to The Taste.
Robin Lail:
Thank you very much.
Doug Shafer:
And I-
Robin Lail:
It's great to be here.
Doug Shafer:
It's super to have you in, and I know for sure that you do not know the first time that our paths crossed.
Robin Lail:
I do not.
Doug Shafer:
I'll, I'll tell you why, because-
Robin Lail:
(Laughs).
Doug Shafer:
... it was 1979 and I was, had a summer job at as a tour guide at Robert Mondavi Winery.
Robin Lail:
Oh, that's amazing.
Doug Shafer:
You were working there.
Robin Lail:
Yes, I was.
Doug Shafer:
So we never actually spoke to each other, but I saw you going back and forth of Bob's office and I was out there in the front of the building welcoming guests. It's pretty funny-
Robin Lail:
Making people happy.
Doug Shafer:
Well, trying. We, we had, that was, that was one of the best jobs I've ever had. Um, so that was a summer of '79. And, you know, we tried to do a little research on folks that come in and your story is, is, goes on forever. I mean, back to the 1800s with one of the best known names in that era Gustave Niebaum then we get to one of the greatest winemakers in the valley, your dad, John Daniel. Then your story, working with Mondavi, working with Bill Harlan, starting your own winery. It goes on and on. So this, we could be here all day long.
Robin Lail:
I'll speak very rapidly. (Laughs).
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs). No, but I, I do, I gotta tell you something. We were doing some research and, um, but I do want to read this what we found. This was, uh, an article in the August 14th, 1908 Napa Weekly Journal, the local newspaper and it was about Gustave Niebaum's, uh, passing and his estate. Niebaum's estate, valued in the neighborhood of two and a half million dollars bulk of which is left to, to a widow.
Doug Shafer:
And I quote, "The San Francisco Call on, of Sunday morning says that at the request of the widow, the will of the late Captain Gus- Gustave Niebaum who died in San Francisco last week will not be open until the end of next week. The estate is valued, valued in the neighborhood of two and a half million dollars. It's the understanding of those who enjoyed the confidence of the captain that the bulk of the property is left to Mrs. Niebaum. Although the couple had no children, they took into their home and raised from babyhood a niece and nephew, who had been left orphans by the death of their parents, Mr. and Mrs. Shingleberry Shingleberger.
Doug Shafer:
Captain Niebaum and his wife were greatly attached to the two children and brought them up with the same care and devotion as though they had been their own. The captain was greatly displeased..." This is great. "The captain was greatly displeased with the marriages and family differences followed." Don't you love that?
Robin Lail:
(Laughs).
Doug Shafer:
"The girl, the girl became the wife of John Daniels, John Daniel Sr., Uh, a young businessman and her brother married, and, and her brother married an actress."
Robin Lail:
Shocking.
Doug Shafer:
Again 1908, shocking news. Today it would be fantastic. Um, it's like Prince Harry. Anyway, "... following the fire of 1906, a reconciliation was effected between Mrs. Daniels and Captain Niebaum and her husband came to enjoy his highest, his highest esteem. Young Shingleberger never regained his, (laughs) young Shingleberger, the one who married the actress never regained his, his, his place in the affections of the captain." I love the way they get into the family stuff.
Robin Lail:
(Laughs).
Doug Shafer:
"Uh, the children were the son and daughter of Mr. uh, of Mrs. Niebaum's brother and despite the attitude of the captain she continued in, in her devotion of them. It is believed that she will make ample provision for both." So, this is 1908. So I've got to ask you, you got to tell me about Gustave, Gustave Niebaum.
Robin Lail:
Well, you know, I didn't know him personally. (Laughs).
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs).
Robin Lail:
The, you would need so much face work (laughs), if that were the case.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
Well, Captain Gustave Niebaum, um, was my Great Grand Uncle, and, um, was larger than life.
Doug Shafer:
Hmm.
Robin Lail:
He definitely was. He was just one of those individuals. He was a man who was a sea captain. He was a man who has a life-long love affair with the sea. He was a man who had an affair life-long love affair with Alaska. He was a man who fell in love with wine and started a winery in Napa Valley in 1879 called Inglenook. He was a man who, um, spoke five languages-
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
Robin Lail:
Fluently and had a working knowledge of two more. He was a man who collected the largest wine library in the world and read every volume in the library, which were written in multiple languages. He didn't need to do that, but he did. He was a man who was the Russian vice counsel to San Francisco. The Counsel was kind of a lazy guy, apparently, and so he was acting, actually acting counsel. He was a man who probably was in the court of Nichols and Alexandra when they were still in power in Russia.
Doug Shafer:
In Russia.
Robin Lail:
He was a man of- of who was reclusive but loved to, um, entertain his friends in a very grand way. He was a man of great excellence. He was a man who followed Louis Pasteur and was very particular about the cleanliness of his winery and did white kit glove inspection tours when he was on property, which was stunning to people. He was a man who tried to find a cure for Phylloxera when it hit the vineyards-
Doug Shafer:
Hmm.
Robin Lail:
In Napa Valley in the 1880's,late 1880's and ‘90s. Um, he did not just, fold up his hands and assume the lilly position. He went after it avidly, working with all kinds of people from all kinds of areas, including Europe. Um, to try to find a solution, which he was not able to find. He was a great collector. Um, he had beautiful Flemish glass from the 17th century, and, um, collections of- there was a Russian tea set that he has that is extraordinary beautiful that was inlaid with all different colors of enamel. He was a man who, um, wasn't a sharer guy. He didn't like to share. So-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
Robin Lail:
You know the vintners in Napa Valley, even at that time were sharing a lot of information. Not so- Not so for him. He was a man who built a brand out of nothing and there were no brands at that time and he was a man who started selling his wine on a worldwide basis in the late 1800's. He was spectacular.
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
Doug Shafer:
How did... So he's a sea captain. He's, he's traveling around the world. How did he find Napa Valley?
Robin Lail:
While he began from very humble origins, by the time he came down to San Francisco, he had a small fortune of $600,000, which he invested in a company called the Alaska Commercial Company. So that company took him all over the world. But in the meantime, he was living in San Francisco-
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
... and used to go to visit friends in Napa Valley. During his tenure at the Alaska Commercial Company, he spent a lot of time in the great wine making regions of Europe.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
And developed a second lifelong love affair, and that was with wine.
Doug Shafer:
With wine. And because this is in the late 1800s, right?
Robin Lail:
Well, not so late.
Doug Shafer:
Not so late.
Robin Lail:
So we're in the 1870s.
Doug Shafer:
Got it.
Robin Lail:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Doug Shafer:
And so, um, so somehow he found his way up to Napa Valley, and-
Robin Lail:
Yes, as a guest and loved it.
Doug Shafer:
As a guest and loved it. And obviously bought, he bought a big beautiful piece of land in Rutherford.
Robin Lail:
Well, it started out with a modest piece of land-
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
... which he just added to, and added to until it was 1,830 acres.
Doug Shafer:
Wow. 1,830 acres. Wow.
Robin Lail:
It was a determined individual. (Laughs).
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs). And then, but, um, and so when he, then he built, he built the estate, the Inglenook Winery, correct?
Robin Lail:
He did.
Doug Shafer:
What year was that?
Robin Lail:
Um, the winery was finished in 1883.
Doug Shafer:
Okay, and it's a beautiful building to this day.
Robin Lail:
It is indeed.
Doug Shafer:
And he started making wine. Do you know what kind of wines he was making?
Robin Lail:
All kinds of wines.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
So you know very well Doug, that, um, even after the repeal of Prohibition, and the few wineries that opened and then slowly grew to more and more, more businesses, the, that the vintners were making huge numbers of wines.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
So all kinds of things that you wouldn't expect including Rieslings and Gewurztraminer
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
... and you name it, and they were making it. And so Niebaum was not so different. I don't know if you know that by the time, the first commercial winery was Charles Krug in 1861. And by the late 1880s, there were, and I'm sorry, I can't give you a specific number, between 120 and 200-
Doug Shafer:
Right, it was close to 200, I do know that. Yeah.
Robin Lail:
... making wine here in Napa Valley. And in 1889, 27 wineries from uh, Napa Valley, went to the Paris Exposition and showed their wines and won, um, gold medals and silv- silver medals and Inglenook won in addition to that a certificate of excellence. So there was-
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Robin Lail:
... there was a lot going on here. The wines that were being made were beautiful. But you know, Inglenook was the first winery, for instance, to develop a brand.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
Because so many wineries at that time were shipping wines to negociants in San Francisco. And negociants were then creating blends from all over California-
Doug Shafer:
All over, right. And then bottle.
Robin Lail:
... and then sending them across the country or around the Cape unrefrigerated, very exciting. (Laughs).
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs).
Robin Lail:
So Niebaum was quite an innovator. You know, he was a man who pioneered double sorting, he pioneered, um, meter by meter planting-
Doug Shafer:
Mmh.
Robin Lail:
... if you go to Opus today, my darling friends at Opus, they will tell you they pioneered meter but not true. No, no, it was Niebaum. He did it.
Doug Shafer:
He did it.
Robin Lail:
And it was of course trying to reproduce what he had seen in Bordeaux, you know-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
... the great producers, so.
Doug Shafer:
Well, this sto- you know, we need to get this story out because everyone thinks, you know, Napa Valley and California is just all happened in the, you know-
Robin Lail:
Absolutely.
Doug Shafer:
... recent 60, yes, the last 40 years. It's been the last 180 years. So -
Robin Lail:
It's really amazing. And, you know, my family's been making wine here in the Valley for 140 years.
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
Robin Lail:
So that's pretty exciting. You know those-
Doug Shafer:
That's pretty cool.
Robin Lail:
... those roots down into the past, give the cachet or the, um, position of wines coming from this area, um, greater depth and meaning I think, you know, because it's not just a Johnny-come-lately kind of thing, "Oh, yeah, so let's, let's go to Napa Valley and make wine." And not only that, in terms of the Napa Valley appellation and its fame today.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
That's built on over, well over 150 years of effort. And, um, it's kind of a sad thing when people come here and, um, have no understanding of that, because they're missing something really special.
Doug Shafer:
That's part of the reason I do this podcast. I've had some f- folks in here who have like yourself, you know, family ties, going back 80, 100 years making wine. And it's great.
Robin Lail:
It is great. It's exciting.
Doug Shafer:
And I, we posted something the other day because it's been 40 years since I went to high school here, you know, in St. Helena and uh, the, my, the photo was out here, right here at the, at the ranch and the background is uh, the mountains of Stag's Leap. It was like oh, and this, you know, I was 17 years old, but I'm looking at the mountains of Stag's Leap and it's like, wow, they still look the same. And I thought a little later, it's like, wow, those things have looked the same for hundreds of years and 150 years of people growing grapes here, making wine.
Robin Lail:
Right.
Doug Shafer:
We have a short time on earth and we come and go and our grapes and wines, they last so many years, but you know, this place and the surrounding mountains and, and topography-
Robin Lail:
And the soul.
Doug Shafer:
And the soul.
Robin Lail:
And the soul, yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah, just maintain and carry on and it's, it's a little overwhelming sometimes when you think about it. But, but also kind of comforting. It's nice to know, it's a great place.
Robin Lail:
It is.
Doug Shafer:
So Gustave and Suzanne, according to the newspaper had no children. But, uh, there was, her niece and nephew, the Sh- Shinglebergers-
Robin Lail:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Doug Shafer:
So they took them in, a son and a daughter.
Robin Lail:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Doug Shafer:
And the daughter married, grew up and married John Daniel senior.
Robin Lail:
Correct.
Doug Shafer:
I have that right?
Robin Lail:
No, you're absolutely right.
Doug Shafer:
It was, it was, I had to do some studying here. It was kind of complicated.
Robin Lail:
John Daniel senior married Leah Shingleberger.
Doug Shafer:
Leah Shingleberger, thank you. And then they had a child, a boy named John Daniel, Jr.
Robin Lail:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Doug Shafer:
Who is your father.
Robin Lail:
Right. And a daughter named Suzanne Daniel.
Doug Shafer:
So your dad was born when? 19...
Robin Lail:
1907.
Doug Shafer:
And he grew up here. So he did he, he grew up at-
Robin Lail:
He did not actually.
Doug Shafer:
Okay, sorry.
Robin Lail:
So, oddly enough, um, history repeated itself. And so Leah Daniel died when my father was seven years old.
Doug Shafer:
Oh wow.
Robin Lail:
She contracted diptheria and it's said that she died of a broken heart.
Doug Shafer:
Hm.
Robin Lail:
Because John Daniel Sr. um, was a bit of a philanderer unfortunately. And, um, Captain Niebaum and Susan Niebaum looked at this situation, came to John Daniel Sr. and said you, sir, are not fit to raise these children.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
We will raise the children. And John Daniel Sr. might have been a philanderer and probably was, however, he wasn't a fool. And so he said, "Well, very well you can do that. But if you do it you must agree to leave all your holdings to, um, the children, John Daniel and Suzanne Daniel."
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
Robin Lail:
And they agreed to do so. So, um...
Doug Shafer:
So Gustave and his wife raised-
Robin Lail:
Yes.
Doug Shafer:
... raised your father?
Robin Lail:
So they raised my father's mother and they raised my father. So what happened was that dad was raised both in San Francisco and at the ranch.
Doug Shafer:
Okay, got it.
Robin Lail:
So yes, he was here from the time he was a boy but, um, and I have some really killer darling pictures of he and Suzanne, you know, when they were little in the pony card and-
Doug Shafer:
Sure.
Robin Lail:
... at the ranch.
Doug Shafer:
Fascinating. So he grew up, so okay, as he, so what was his childhood like? He was in a city in San Francisco and up here.
Robin Lail:
So my dad, my dad, um, I found one of his (laughs) this is a good pertinent to nothing. I found one of his, um, diaries-
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
... in the attic.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, neat.
Robin Lail:
And it was written at the time he was seven years old and every, every night it's said wrestled with Ned Spalding.
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs).
Robin Lail:
So I think he was working a few things out at that time. And um, the thing that's a bit touching is that when my father passed away in 197- 1970, um, I received a letter from Ned Spalding, who I had never laid eyes on-
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
... and it killed me and I wrote back to him and said, wrestled with Ned Spalding, yeah, it was a lovely thing.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, wow.
Robin Lail:
So, um, dad went to private schools.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
He went to Potter High, um, and he played a little football while he was at Potter High. And in the summertimes, he worked at the ranch in the vineyards. And, um, so you know, was um, learning by touch and feel-
Doug Shafer:
Sure.
Robin Lail:
... at the beginning and he had, because of his growing up there, had this great passion for this beautiful property and also for the legacy that he came from.
Doug Shafer:
So that's where, okay, so he grew up in the vineyards in the summer, was he working in the winery too you think? Or just mostly-
Robin Lail:
No, he wasn't working in the winery because it was prohibition.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, that's right.
Robin Lail:
(Laughs).
Doug Shafer:
I was gonna ask you about that. What happened with Ingle- Inglenook during Prohibition?
Robin Lail:
So, you know, I'm sure quite well, that there were, that everybody closed with the exception-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
... of two producers, one was B- Beringer.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
And one was Beaulieu, now called BV.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
And Inglenook continued to keep their vineyards in pristine condition and sold grapes to, um, Beaulieu.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
So that's what happened during Prohibition of Inglenook. And I think you know also that in 1939, it became apparent that Prohibition was going to come to an end.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
And so several vintners, not many, but several vintners made a 1939 vintage.
Doug Shafer:
Okay. At that point, I think was he, was, was he working at, was he making wine at that point? Your dad?
Robin Lail:
My dad was sent by his father to reopen Inglenook-
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
... at the end of Prohibition, so when, um, he, he went there, you know, prohibition just landed, sorry, lasted for 13 years.
Doug Shafer:
Correct.
Robin Lail:
And, um, there was a vintage made that year which was in 1933, excuse me, not 1939-
Doug Shafer:
And he was, and he at that point did he, he was the owner because he inherited it?
Robin Lail:
He was not the owner, Suzanne, Suzanne Niebaum was still living-
Doug Shafer:
Got it, okay.
Robin Lail:
And she died in 1936.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
So which point he became the owner but wasn't the manager, um, until 1939.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
So he was sent there and then immediately became an apprentice.
Robin Lail:
So he, you know, all the time learned the hard way. He was only 26 years old - So Carl Bundschu was the winemaker-
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
... when the winery opened and you know, the Bundschus still are going today-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
... which is very exciting. And Carl Bundschu was the prototype of the winemaker. He had-
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
Very, very fat cheeks and a giant bulbous nose and some hair and, and there was so much intensity in his face, it was absolutely fabulous. He was just brilliant. And he made beautiful wines, really exciting wines. And I don't know exactly when George Dewar took over-
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
... for Carl Bundschu. I think it was probably in the late, um, 30s. And then George Dewar was the winemaker until the winery was sold. And then for some time after that, and what's really tragic is that George Dewar eventually had a nervous breakdown and burned all his wine making notes.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, oh.
Robin Lail:
So no one knows how these wines from Inglenook which have such longevity-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
Just, um-
Doug Shafer:
They're gorgeous wines.
Robin Lail:
I just, um, just poured a 1959 Cabernet Sauvignon the other night that was spectacular. Just beautiful.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, that's sad story.
Robin Lail:
Sad story. Yes.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. But, but beautiful wines. And so your dad, but so your dad owned I- Inglenook and ran it for, for all those years.
Robin Lail:
He did. He did. For 30 years.
Doug Shafer:
Got it. And then and at some point he married and you and your sister came along, and you grew up, where'd you grow up?
Robin Lail:
Um, Inglenook.
Doug Shafer:
Inglenook.
Robin Lail:
Yes.
Doug Shafer:
Right there.
Robin Lail:
My sister started out in San Francisco, but um, Inglenook in, in the interim periods.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
And I was born and at Inglenook from three days after I was born, so ...
Doug Shafer:
Wow, what was that like?
Robin Lail:
It was magical. It was magical. It was so magical, so, so beautiful and so rural, and so, I, I can't even begin. It was like Eden.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
And to be honest with you as a child, perhaps I didn't appreciate it to the same level I can remember when we used to travel. Mother and dad would come home and wax eloquently about, "Oh, let's do a John, it's so beautiful. Isn't it so beautiful?" And I would look at them and think to myself, "Well, you know, it's yes, it's very attractive, but there's no mountains and there's no oceans. So how beautiful is it?" And of course as you begin to age and grow older in this place, the beauty just absolutely is mesmerizing.
Doug Shafer:
It is.
Robin Lail:
It's just breathtaking. So, but it was a happy place to grow up. I had a pony and then I had a horse-
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
... and, um, a wonderful dog. It was a little isolated honestly-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
... um, because it seemed like for my mother it was a very long way, (laughs) for play dates and so forth.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
So, it was a place of the heart. And it was days in the mountain and on the mountain and days finding secret places and, getting the eggs from the chicken coop and raising a calf for 4-H and all those wonderful kind of rural things and just investigating every part of that property. And when I was quite young my mother left for, let's see, she left when I was around three-
Doug Shafer:
Mmh.
Robin Lail:
... and divorced my dad and remarried. And then divorced that man and came back and remarried my dad and um, when I was seven. And the period she was gone, we used, um, to have picnics on the weekends.
Doug Shafer:
Oh.
Robin Lail:
We had a Chinese cook named Charlie who was such a pal. And um, Charlie made fabulous lunches, these really thinly sliced French bread sandwiches with, with roast beef and ham-
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Robin Lail:
... and tuna and peanut butter and jelly, huge platters of them. So we'd have these picnics on Novell Creek. And, um, which was, there was a stand of redwoods. And it was above a dam that we had on the property.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
And it was, that was magical.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
And, you know, I can remember those are just kind of snippets that come to you from your childhood. I can remember these hampers full of, of these wonderful, yummy foods. And then, um, wine obviously for the grown ups and, um, I can remember that after the lunch was over, the grown ups would spread these big blankets and they would lie down and be chatting and then kind of have a little snooze (laughs).
Doug Shafer:
Take a little snooze (laughs). We call that a siesta.
Robin Lail:
But it was, I don't know how to really encapsulate it well.
Doug Shafer:
You just did, as beautiful.
Robin Lail:
And you know, just the other thing, Doug, is that I was playing in the vineyards. So that was marvelous.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Robin Lail:
I mean, the vineyards for me were magical throughout the season. So, um, wonderful in the winter, and when the mustard would starting to grow, and then just become this wonderful carpet in the, in the early spring, and I can remember hiding in the mustard-
Doug Shafer:
Sure.
Robin Lail:
... because it was so tall and looking up at the clouds and making, making stories and then you know, spring would come along, and then the magic of the vine starting to bud and then bloom, and that, I just loved it. And we had, I had a tree house that was over, branched over the vineyard-
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
... in one place and it, there was an Indian mound, burial mound, in that part of the vineyard. And so when they would till then in the spring, I would go out and look at, you know, for arrowheads and so forth. Then you know then the grapes would start growing. And then they would turn color-
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Robin Lail:
... and then I would try to eat them and they were so nasty, (laughs).
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs).
Robin Lail:
Teeny and filled with seeds and so sharp.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah, unripe grapes are tough.
Robin Lail:
(Laughs). So, um, but then, and then the great crescendo, which was harvest and the wonderful excitement of these grapes being harvested and taken to the winery, and then this fabulous perfume-
Doug Shafer:
Yes.
Robin Lail:
... that would come from the winery, it just-
Doug Shafer:
Because you lived right, you lived right there, right?
Robin Lail:
Well, we lived, we lived right behind it. Yes. And so, that was ecstasy. It really was. And the, the vines going to sleep. It was a whole show every year.
Doug Shafer:
The whole year.
Robin Lail:
It was this fabulous scene.
Doug Shafer:
All the seasons.
Robin Lail:
Yeah. So it was wonderful. I loved it.
Doug Shafer:
Thank you for that. That was just beautiful. ... that's great. So the folks had some wine, were you, did, uh, did dad ever give you a little, little glass of wine or water and wine, anything like that?
Robin Lail:
So, no.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
There was wine on the table every night. When my mother came home... Honestly, Doug, I think perhaps she felt a bit guilty ... for her excursion. And, so she announced pretty much upon arrival that she was going to raise my sister and I in the Mormon Church.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
It's a fine religion, um, which does not embrace wine in any way. And so, my father, from the time I was old enough to comprehend what he was saying to me used to say, "I see myself as the caretaker of this legacy, of this heritage, of this land, and it will all be yours one day." And it's a dangerous thing to say to a child because things happen, things happen, they can happen. Maybe it rolls out as planned and everyone-
Doug Shafer:
Sure.
Robin Lail:
... lives happily ever after. Um, in this instance, my mother happened and that was the end. And so wine on the table we were allowed to smell it, but not to taste it. I remember the first time I ever went, and we, and we did what - trash-
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Robin Lail:
... talk about something sad, so we never talked about the wine business-
Doug Shafer:
Mmh.
Robin Lail:
... and my dad was such an amazing contributor to the business and s- involved up to his armpits, you know-
Doug Shafer:
Oh he was, he was-
Robin Lail:
... heart and soul.
Doug Shafer:
He was one of the key guys.
Robin Lail:
Well, there were only what? 10 wineries.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Robin Lail:
Nine, sorry, nine wineries that reopened-
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Robin Lail:
... after prohibition out of this 200 odd that were extent before the turn of the century. So he, you, you know, was Robert Mondavi's mentor-
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
... and those two guys shared the vision that Napa Valley could make wine second to none in the world. And as we know today, so well, Robert Mondavi just continued to pursue that and did so with great excellence and great effectiveness, and was so important in the building of the, of the magic of the Napa Valley appellation worldwide.
Doug Shafer:
Yes, he was. But your dad was his mentor.
Robin Lail:
He was his mentor. So no, no tasting wine.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Robin Lail:
And the first tasting I ever went to with my dad, I was at Stanford. And, um, my dad had gone to Stanford and my sister as well.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
And so he came down and picked me up and I said dad, what do I do if the wine just tastes awful? He said, "This is what you do." He said, "You look at the wine, you hold the glass up, you smell the wine, then you taste it. And then you look into the eyes of the person standing around the, across the table, and you pause for a moment, and then you say, 'This wine is really interesting'." (Laughs).
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs). It worked, it worked then and it works now.
Robin Lail:
It works now, and I could, I must tell you that when people tell me my wine is interesting, I tend to become inflamed. (Laughs).
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs). That's pretty funny. So you're at Stanford so, well, you know, you're out of the house, Stanford were you drinking beer, drinking wine?
Robin Lail:
Yes sir, yes sir.
Doug Shafer:
Okay, good. That's good to know.
Robin Lail:
I drank beer. And I drank a lot of gin actually, when I was in college. I don't touch a drop of it, (laughs) today.
Doug Shafer:
Gin, yeah, gin, gin is not good.
Robin Lail:
No, no, it's very bad. (Laughs).
Doug Shafer:
You and I have the same genetic make up on that one, (laughs). So Stanford, um, and, uh, anything fun in college? Sports, major activities, just-
Robin Lail:
Oh, I played tennis for Stanford-
Doug Shafer:
Great.
Robin Lail:
... and, um, and actually, I had this professor at Stanford who used to say, his name was Watkins, and he used to say in his lectures without fail every single day that you were in his class, "You people," that was all, all of us students on the other side, "You people don't get it. You have no idea the value of what you're, what you're in right now. You, you won't get it for years." And we all used to look at him and think of course we get it. Well, um, when I graduated or I was meant to graduate, it was the week after grades were coming out and I got a call from a professor of a graduate seminar that I had taken. And he said, "Miss Daniel," he was Yugoslavian, "Miss Daniel, I would like to take you to lunch at the Faculty Club."
Doug Shafer:
Hm.
Robin Lail:
I had not been a stu- I had been more of a, let's say, socially active and I don't mean ridiculously but I sat on a couple of committees. And I was not, um, comfortable in the company of professors. I did not seek their company. Um, I studied hard and did well, but you know. So this seminar, though, was a disaster, because the, the professor had escaped from Yugoslavia during a revolution, the revolution of the time. And I felt so terrible for him that when I would go to see him during his office hours, I would cry. And so now he's called and invited me to lunch and I think that's it, I flunked, I flunked the seminar and I'm not going to graduate.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
So we go to lunch and it goes on and on and on, and I am tongue tied, not good at making small talk at the time. And so he holds conversation and finally dessert comes and he said, "You know, Mrs. Daniel, um, during the course of the seminar, I thought you were hopeless."
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs).
Robin Lail:
He said, "But Miss Daniel, the paper you wrote was brilliant. And I am going to put it in the Hoover Institute."
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
Robin Lail:
"And Daniel, I strongly urge you to continue your education, go to graduate school, get a PhD because the things that you write will be of great value." And Professor Walkins was so correct. I was so dumbfounded. Dumbfounded and, you know, I already had the plans of what I was going to do so basically, it was too late. It was too late in that particular genre. And yes, I yes, I did miss it. Yes, I did. Dang it.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Robin Lail:
So you know, we all have these, maybe not many, but these paths not taken.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
Um, and another one for me was that very summer I had, um, my father's distributor had gotten me a job working as American concierge in ILLUM's department store in, um, Copenhagen. And I didn't take the job. And you know, the those kinds of jobs were not available at the time, you just couldn't go do things like that. So it was really extraordinary opportunity. And my beau had decided to stay in San Francisco and I stayed home to see my beau. And so you know, those, those kinds of paths, every once in a while, not on a daily basis, thank goodness, but every once in a while, they pop into your mind and, and there is a moment of saying, "I wonder what would have happened?"
Doug Shafer:
Oh, sure. We all have that.
Robin Lail:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
We all have that but you have to look at the reality and the path you did take.
Robin Lail:
Yes. Hubba hubba. (Laughs).
Doug Shafer:
And, and find the joyous moments and there's a lot.
Robin Lail:
Yes, that's absolutely true.
Doug Shafer:
But I'm with you, it's kind of fun to wonder, wonder sometimes.
Robin Lail:
Well, you have no idea so it doesn't last long.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah, plus you're going to make this beautiful dream where the reality goes, maybe that wouldn't have happened at all.
Robin Lail:
(Laughs). That's exactly right.
Doug Shafer:
So, so you're staying in, you graduate. You're staying in San Francisco with your guy. Was that, was that John?
Robin Lail:
No.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, no. Okay, we'll get to John later. But, um, you mentioned earlier, some things don't always happen the way they're promised. And in '64, your dad sold Inglenook.
Robin Lail:
Yes, he did.
Doug Shafer:
That must... Was what was that like?
Robin Lail:
So I was working, um, at the Bank of America-
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Robin Lail:
... at the time, and I remember getting the call. And I remember the sense of death that hit me that was so overpowering. The death of this legacy, which even then was unique. I mean, it was something-
Doug Shafer:
Sure.
Robin Lail:
... quite special. For the business I think, not just not just Robin you know, no, but for a much bigger circle than that. And so I was devastated and you know Doug I'm writing a, uh, or I shou- glacially writing a book.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, great. Good.
Robin Lail:
And, um, which is, really it's a memoir and it's such an interesting experience. I mean, you, you have played in this field very successful yourself with your book about your dad and, uh, but I wonder if you, during that period of time that you were writing, had epiphanies about things that had happened during the course of, of your growing up in your life, and I certainly have had them in this instance. And one of these epiphanies was not very pretty, and it was, dad, you know, why didn't you just go to mother and say, "Look, Betty, this is not an appropriate decision for you, as to the future of these girls, and why don't we ask them if they would be interested in carrying on here." You know, maybe not drinking. I mean, you know, there could have been a dozen ways to put it together, but it never happened.
Doug Shafer:
Hm.
Robin Lail:
And it was just sold. And another person that was quite devastated when he found out was Bob Mondavi. And that was before Robert Mondavi got built.
Doug Shafer:
So he was still at Charles Krug?
Robin Lail:
No, he was I think he had been ousted by that point in time.
Doug Shafer:
Okay, so. Oh wow.
Robin Lail:
And he's, he was so devastated. And because he and dad we're close and on the same page all the time in the business and, um, he said, "If only if only he had approached me I would have, I would have found a way to buy the winery." And he would have because that's who he was, you know? He started Robert Mondavi with, uh, two $25,000 loans from friends, you know, and then going to the bank and saying, "Look, I have all this backing and I want you to back me even more." And they did.
Doug Shafer:
I never knew that story.
Robin Lail:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
So you're devastated. Um, and you're living in the city. What, what was it like for Inglenook from where you stood? Did the quality suffer greatly? It was, it was bought by United Vintners, correct?
Robin Lail:
That's right.
Doug Shafer:
Initial purchase.
Robin Lail:
So the United Vintners was a cooperative and then as time went on, it was purchased by the parent company, Heublein.
Doug Shafer:
Heublein bought it, okay.
Robin Lail:
And, um, you know, it was basically over. And so there was, I just didn't follow it that closely. And for my dad, it was a classic situation where he had been, um, they had said, of course, we want you to stay on for a period of three years. And it just got ugly so fast, you know, that things were being done without his, um, without his involvement in any way. And it affected, you know, his, his position. And so that fell apart very quickly. It was a very heartbreaking situation. And then, I don't know if you recall this, I'm sure you will want to mention it. But, um, when the whole thrust for the Ag Preserve started-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
... um, it came on quite suddenly, the Board of Supervisors probably had been working on it for months but there was not brought awareness of it in the community. And so it was launched and my dad said, "Well, you know, so I see this is a land reform," and he had been a great champion of, of the little growers for years and years and had been active in working with them, um, in standing up for them against the last minute purchases of Gallo coming in, you know, and saying, "Okay, we'll buy them for-"
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
"... not so much." So, very fine company, by the way, obviously, but, um... so he, so he fought it. He fought it diligently. He had, my dad was a real record keeper and there were no computers obviously at that time. And I know that he had an entire four drawer cabinet filled with correspondence and efforts to try and right this, right the cart.
Doug Shafer:
Got it.
Robin Lail:
And you know, today and long ago, I had a different opinion and know that the Ag Preserve is of in- inestimable importance to us here.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Robin Lail:
Then and now.
Doug Shafer:
But at the time it was very controversial.
Robin Lail:
It was.
Doug Shafer:
And both, and both sides had valid points. I mean, it was.
Robin Lail:
True, however, um, a bad thing happened. And so when I see controversies come up today, Doug between, you know, groups that have been passionate feelings and other groups that oppose those feelings, I feel very concerned. And I feel concerned because what happened to my dad was horrendous. And, um, people stopped talking to him, his friends stopped communicating with him, and he was asked to resign from the Napa Valley Vintners.
Doug Shafer:
Wow, I didn't know that.
Robin Lail:
Heartbreaking. And so heartbreaking that indeed, you know, in 1970, he committed suicide.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
He had a nervous breakdown. And that was it. So, and the funny part about that, if there is a funny part about that, is that when I was a young woman, um, I was not allowed to see, date anyone who had a history of suicide in their family because my father felt it was a gen- (laughs), a genetic issue.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, wow.
Robin Lail:
So, (laughs).
Doug Shafer:
And you're and you're what and you were like, 30.
Robin Lail:
I was 30.
Doug Shafer:
30.
Robin Lail:
Yup. And so green. Honestly, so green.
Doug Shafer:
You're 30 and you're green and you're living in San Francisco.
Robin Lail:
Yeah. Well, not for long.
Doug Shafer:
This, this was devastating.
Robin Lail:
Living in Mill Valley.
Doug Shafer:
How did you, uh, how did you pull yourself together? How'd you do that?
Robin Lail:
Well, bad things happened. Doug there were a lot of bad things that happened and my dad changed his will the day before he died. Again, guilt I think.
Doug Shafer:
Sure.
Robin Lail:
He knew he was going to do it and put me, and I had been working with, with him for a year. I'd been commuting up to the ranch and he was now training me to be his boy.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, okay.
Robin Lail:
His boy that would take over and save everything and the constant comment was, "Save everything."
Doug Shafer:
'Cause he still had land.
Robin Lail:
Oh, a lot of land.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, okay. That's, 'cause [crosstalk 00:44:36].
Robin Lail:
He sold the front, the front part of the winery and 90 acres so there was-
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
... still a lot of land and Napanook. And the property where Opus is today and, and, and, and. So there was-
Robin Lail:
And he effectively tied my hands in a bow knot when he, when he rewrote his will, and so there was a lot of selling and a lot of, um, just stuff.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Robin Lail:
So to be honest with you, I had a very bitter, very bitter two years. And a real battle, internal battle with my mother. And my mother was a very strong woman and she clearly had some issues, but nonetheless, you know that, it was a very, very difficult time. And I must say, I didn't do very well. I didn't. I tried hard-
Doug Shafer:
Sure.
Robin Lail:
...but I just didn't do very well. And so... Then at some point, you sit up in your bed and you say, "Wait a minute, okay, who are you harming with this kind of bitterness?" You know, it's just one person, hello, it's me. And so I just stopped. I just stopped being bitter and I thought, "Okay, here we are. Let's go on." And I love so much that quote from Henry Ford, which, which is attributed to Henry Ford, but if you go after it, it may be who knows, someone else. And it is, "Whether you think you can or you can't. You're right." And so, um, things, things happened and it was bumpy.
Doug Shafer:
Sure.
Robin Lail:
It was bumpy and I was hired, we moved back to Napa Valley in 1972. John went to work for Oakville vineyards.
Doug Shafer:
John, John, your husband?
Robin Lail:
John, my husband. Yes.
Doug Shafer:
Great guy.
Robin Lail:
From, um, 1966. And now we're in 1972 and have two little children. Erin and Shannon. And John goes to work for the people who have, my mother has sold, (laughs), sold my ranch my ranch, you know, in my little heart.
Doug Shafer:
Sure, where you grew up.
Robin Lail:
Yes.
Doug Shafer:
The people that bought it, hired John.
Robin Lail:
John as a vice president of marketing and they had 400 limited partners-
Doug Shafer:
Oh my.
Robin Lail:
... and Oakville Vineyards and so I became the person who was giving guided tours through my home.
Doug Shafer:
Through the home you grew, the home you grew up in.
Robin Lail:
My home.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, no.
Robin Lail:
And when the phone would ring, I would think I've got to answer the phone, excuse me, me I have to- No. Not my phone.
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs). Not your phone.
Robin Lail:
So you know, that was kind of part of the bumpy part. And I went to work, I was hired by the board of directors for a brand new volunteer center here in Napa County and I became the executive director of the board of directors.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
I mean, excuse me, other of the Volunteer Center.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
And I started with a one time, um, one year $19,000 grant. (Laughs). So that was quite an experience. And, in 1977, I had built a core of 10,000 volunteers and we were working with 250 private and public NGOs. Well, private NGOs and public agencies and, um, I was having chest pains. And about that time Robert Gerald Mondavi came to see me come, said in to have lunch. And then he said, "I'd like you to come to work for me as my secretary." And I said-
Doug Shafer:
This is Robert Mondavi.
Robin Lail:
Yes.
Doug Shafer:
... called you up.
Robin Lail:
So-
Doug Shafer:
You had known for your whole life basically.
Robin Lail:
Since I was four.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
And I said, "Well, Bob, thank you so much, but I can't do that. I am, I am an executive." And he said, "What are you talking about?" and I said, "I'm the executive director of the Volunteer Center." And he said, "Well, that's just lovely." So I went right to work for Robert Gerald Mondavi, who became Mr. Mondavi overnight.
Doug Shafer:
No, you were, 'cause I remember when I was working there in '79. You started in '77. Right?
Robin Lail:
Yes, exactly.
Doug Shafer:
No, you walked by 'cause I was just there for a couple months in the summer but the full time tour guys were like, "Oh, there goes Robin. She's like, you know, she's she's like Robert's, right hand, in other words. She knows she knows everything." She’s the one.
Robin Lail:
So it was this, an epiphany number two. I didn't realize until just a year ago that I really think what happened was that Robert Mondavi said, "Look, what's this? What's this person? Daughter of John Daniel doing? She's working as the Volunteer Center. She needs to go back into the wine business. She needs to pick up the pieces and carry on." I'm sure that was the driving force and because he didn't need Robin Lail, who was just obstreperous and full of fun and all that kind of thing, working as his secretary, but that's exactly what happened. I went to work there and it was a training period. Five years of training.
Doug Shafer:
I like that.
Robin Lail:
And it was fabulous. So yes, I was the secretary. Absolutely.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, but that's-
Robin Lail:
We went to lunch, you know? We would go to lunch and he would order five bottles of wine for the two of us. And then he would look at me and say, I want you to tell me what you find in each of these wines. One of them was al- always a Robert Mondavi. And Margarit taught me early on that you always say, "But your wine is the most-" (Laughs).
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs).
Robin Lail:
"Your wine is the most spectacular." So by the influence of both Bob and Margarit, you know, I got, I got the opportunity to, to start, to found the first Auction Napa Valley.
Doug Shafer:
Right, I wanted to talk to you about that, but first, those of you don't know Auction Napa Valley is, used to call it the Napa Valley Auction House at Napa Valley. And it, uh, was started in 1981. And Robin was going to tell us what happened because she organized it but it's been going over, this will be the 40th year and they've raised over $190 million for charity in this valley. So what's the story behind the auction? How did that happen?
Robin Lail:
The story behind the auction is, is pretty interesting actually, Robert Mondavi had been recruited by the St. Helena Hospital to do a capital campaign of $7 million. And I know you can't possibly know, but at that time, there were not very many vintners still in the valley. And $7 million was a lot of money, really a lot of money. And so many of the vintners that were extent at the time, you know, were running pretty close to the...
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
Close to the hip.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
So this was not an easy deal. And so we put together a list of, as you always do in a capital campaign, a list of the potential primary large donors, and one of them was a woman named Pat Montandon who was quite a figure in San Francisco socially and was married to Al Wilsey. And, um, so we invited her to lunch. And that was not really me, but it was Robert Mondavi and Margarit and I was at the luncheon table, the secretary, to take mental notes. So Pat came to lunch and as fate would have it, she had given a very large party the previous year. And at their, at their home, which was a beautiful home on the Rutherford crossroad. And a lot of people had become very annoyed because they were not invited to this party and there was a big splash in the newspapers about it, and it was not sort of something that was hidden in any way.
Doug Shafer:
That's funny.
Robin Lail:
So she wanted to give another party but she already had this part, you know this problem because she was not everybody's favorite right at that moment. So she arrived at lunch with an agenda and we certainly had an agenda and her agenda was, she said, "What I'd like to do is host an auction for the Napa Valley vintners," and Margarit Mondavi said, "Oh my goodness, it could be like the Hospice Du Rhone and the Hospice Du Rhone, as you know so well, Doug, is the only extent wine auction which had been going on I believe since 1700 in Burgundy.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
There were no wine auctions except the Hospice Du Rhone, so Burgundy France. Margarit just pegged it right away, she said and Robert, Mr. Mondavi at the time, said, "Robin, this is the exact kind of, um, thing that your father and I looked for, have looked for for so many years. That really could be an event that could promote the Napa Valley appellation and do good at the same time." And that was the beginning.
Doug Shafer:
And he said, "And it's all yours," right? (Laughs).
Robin Lail:
So, but no, absolutely no, he certainly did not. So now I was going to be at the Wilsey's. So we had a meeting at the Wilsey's and there was a very, I went to the meeting and there was a very large day bed in this kitchen area, which is where all the vintners came and we had this meeting with Pat Montandon. And the meeting was so intense and I got so nervous and skirts were very short at the time very, very short. And I scoochied way back up against the back of this day bed and there was a lot of day bed in front of me. And at some point in time, I had to get off it. (Laughs). And it was no, no mean feat to keep the dress down. At any rate. So, um, time went on the vintners agreed to do auction, they were very cautious about the idea. And, um, it became apparent that it just really wasn't going to work out too well to have it at a private home.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
And so we moved to the next square and the next square became Meadowood. So what happened was that Bob and Margarit were traveling a great deal at the time. And this was in 1979-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
... that we decided we were going to do this and the launch date was 1981. And so, time went on, time went on, I started to get really concerned that nothing was being done, you know? And so I finally said, "Would you mind if I get started here?" And so no, they wouldn't mind. And so I put together a committee of people that was so remarkable and the participants on this committee primarily were wives of vintners. Brilliant women, um, or growers. So Martha May and Laila Yeager and Margarit Mondavi, not surprisingly, and Priscilla Upton and, and, and, and... people who were, these women who had done all the, there were no, there were no restaurants to speak of. There was Grapevine Inn, so these women were the great entertainers, you know, for their husbands and building their businesses.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
And they were fabulous. Oh, so bright and so marvelous. And, and then in addition to this fabulous group of women, there was Bill Harlan and Peter Palmisano and Herb Schmidt.
Robin Lail:
And so it, that was basically our working group and we we built this auction from scratch, and it was a very exciting process. In 1980, um, Bill Harlan and John and I, and Bill's, uh, date went to Bordeaux and but the purpose of the trip was really to go to Burgundy to go to the Hospices de Beaune to see what was going on. So from the beginning, the idea behind auction Napa Valley was, um, threefold, it was to produce monies to help, the, the first auctions were just in support of medical. So it was just the two hospitals-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
... the Queen of the Valley and the St. Helena Hospital and then Clinic Olé and now it's a completely different thrust, which is children's health care and wellness and education. The purpose of the auction originally was to raise money for philanthropy within the community, um, to integrate the community with the vintners. To be, to bring us together with the people of the valley is very, very important. And to do so in a really positive way. And, um, the last and not least, was to promote Napa Valley.
Doug Shafer:
Sure. It's, um, it's just been a big win.
Robin Lail:
It's been a big win.
Doug Shafer:
On all those counts. And, and thank you very much for getting it going. 'Cause, I love, I love Mr. Mondavi, but boy, he's tough to, was tough to tie down those days. So someone had to get the-
Robin Lail:
Well, we had, we had a committee. I should not miss the committee, and the chairman of the committee was Louie Martini ... Jr. And, uh, no, Louis, which is it? Louis L? Uh, there's an initial there. It was the younger Louis Martini-
Doug Shafer:
Got it.
Robin Lail:
... and Chuck Carpy.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah, great guys.
Robin Lail:
So they, they were great too.
Doug Shafer:
So after a few years with Mondavi you, you kind of continue to get back into the wine business in a big way. And you met a guy named Christian Moueix. Tell me about that. Who's that guy?
Robin Lail:
So that introduction was made by Bob Mondavi.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
And, um, Christian Moueix is a fascinating person. We first met in December of 1981. And then we co-founded Dominus in May of 1982, with my sister, Marky, and it was a venture that lasted until 1995. It was a venture that had, for me, just Robin by myself in my little room. I thought it was the opportunity to start again.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Robin Lail:
To rekindle this legacy, but to bring it into the 21st century in a brand new way. You know, and for Christian the same you know, coming from, from Saint-Emilion I'm sorry, from Pomerol and Saint-Emilion and his amazing reputation there. And the fabulous wine-
Doug Shafer:
Sure.
Robin Lail:
... you know, obviously, he was champion of Petrus the time and, and also the director. So I just thought, and 14 other chateau by the way-
Doug Shafer:
Yes.
Robin Lail:
... but, um, I just thought that this could be a merger that would create a brand new excitement, um, with gre- with great legacies on both sides. And unfortunately, that was, I believe, not Christian's view I think that perhaps he, from the outset was interested in, um, a vineyard, you know, that he, he had looked before and couldn't find anything and so, um, he was interested in perhaps taking over the vineyard. So it was a very, very interesting, um, venture. I learned a great deal, Doug. I am very, uh, I admire Christian's capabilities enormously and really value the interactions that I had at the time and, um, the opportunity. And, um, you know, basically, when I emerged from that, from that joint venture, um, or partnership I came - came out with, um, two and a half acres of Merlot across the street from- from Napanook.
Doug Shafer:
From Napanook. In Yountville. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
And, um, and, um, a knowledge that if I was ever going to start over, it had to be now with the two and a half acres of Merlot-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
That was 1995 and I was 55 years old. And what's interesting about that age at that time is-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Robin Lail:
Is that, uh, that when my dad sold Ingelnook he was 55 years old. So...
Doug Shafer:
Oh, really?
Robin Lail:
So, yes.
Doug Shafer:
Okay. And that's when you started, you started that was, that's when Lail Vineyard started?
Robin Lail:
That's when Lail Vineyard started, yes.
Doug Shafer:
Look, I'm gonna jump back on you. Before that, you had a little gig with Mr. Harland?
Robin Lail:
I did.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) Oh tell me about that one.
Robin Lail:
So that, that was um, much more interactive, if you would say.
Doug Shafer:
Good.
Robin Lail:
Um, and uh, it's such an education.
Doug Shafer:
Of course.
Robin Lail:
So uh, Bill is such an important figure in my life.
Doug Shafer:
Hmm.
Robin Lail:
Uh, in terms of, probably call it an apprenticeship I suppose.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
I mean, it was never presented that way, but I started out as his secretary. I went to work, I went to work for Bill in um, 1982.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
In San Francisco.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, okay.
Robin Lail:
And then uh, we moved back to Meadowood in 1985. But we started um, Lail Vineyards. Uh, sorry, excuse me. I have a one track mind. (laughter) Lail, Lail, Lail. Uh, we started Merryvale Vineyards in um, 1983. And when I say we, that partnership was composed of John and Robin, um, Bill Harlan and his partners at Pacific Union, Peter Stocker and John Montgomery.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
But in terms of activity, basically um, Bill and I were kind of on the, on the-
Doug Shafer:
Operations, yeah.
Robin Lail:
Operation line. And so, what did I learn from Bill? I learned, what did I learn from Robert Mondavi? So much. In both cases, so much. And Bill was not an easy man to work for. Um, he was a man who was interested in what was wrong versus what was right. My, my favorite story is his story of Bill playing tennis with our, tennis pro at Meadowood, Doug King. And um,
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs)
Robin Lail:
Doug saying, "Oh, way to hit the ball Bill. Oh, way to hit through that ball. Oh, that looks really good."
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs)
Robin Lail:
And Bill puts down his tennis racket and approaches the net. And uh, Doug just (laughs) what's gonna happen now and approaches the net.
Robin Lail:
And Bill leans forward and says to him, "You know Doug, I'm not interested in what I'm doing right, I'm interested in what I'm doing wrong." And so I think that that was, at that time, you know.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Robin Lail:
And that was a, we had a long go together, um, kind of, a driving force.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Robin Lail:
It was always the pursuit of excellence.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
It was the pursuit of the highest degree of excellence, not just kinda good old, good old, no.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Robin Lail:
It had to be top of the heap, it had to be beyond, the next level, the next level. So the drive for excellence really suited me.
Doug Shafer:
Sure.
Robin Lail:
The challenge suited me. But it was, it was, it was hard. But I'm so grateful.
Doug Shafer:
Sure.
Robin Lail:
So, I think that Bill, well I know BIll's responsible for me being where I am today.
Doug Shafer:
Well look at the education you've had. You know, and then, and then finally you get to put all together.
Robin Lail:
Well -
Doug Shafer:
In 1995 you started your own thing.
Robin Lail:
It wouldn't have happened because, mind you, I went to work for a miss, his secretary.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
But in 1985, I became managing director of Meadowood because there was none right at the time and we were working at Meadowood to go to the next level, big jump.
Doug Shafer:
That's right, I remember that.
Robin Lail:
To be, to be an international -
Doug Shafer:
Destination, resort. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
Destination of the highest order.
Doug Shafer:
I remember those years when they re-did everything, yeah.
Robin Lail:
So, you know, (Laughs), and then of course, Merryvale was still going and then he, he bought Sunny St. Helena winery.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
With me saying, "Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it." (Laughs) but he did it, and then I became president of Merryvale, and um, there's a lot going on. And none of that would have happened if he hadn't been propelling me to try and help me be all I could be. So he is a very interesting man, he's a man who plays the long game. He's a man who's very interested in what other people's opinions are, even if he has a very clear opinion himself, which has been under development for a long period of time. And um, he listens and then evaluates and moves forward.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
But he's very patient. He's very patient, if you look at the Napa Valley Reserve, that was a project that probably took oh, at least 10 years, to put into being so, I love that. I love um, his attention to detail. He's an outstanding editor. Outstanding negotiator, and an outstanding builder of character.
Doug Shafer:
Hmm.
Robin Lail:
You know? That, you cannot survive in that kind of organization without some temerity and some ambition and some desire and you know, things that carry you over, the little bumps along the way. He is a very valuable person in my life, I'm very grateful of my association. So.
Doug Shafer:
Fantastic, so you're working with him for what, 10-12 years? Something like that.
Robin Lail:
Yes.
Doug Shafer:
And then, finally, we get to Lail Vineyards.
Robin Lail:
Finally, yes. (Laughs)
Doug Shafer:
The origin. Tell me about Lail Vineyards, it's 1995.
Robin Lail:
No, you know,
Doug Shafer:
Is that it?
Robin Lail:
You know, Doug, I was terrified from starting over, I think we've gone way over 10 minute?
Doug Shafer:
No it's fine, we got, we got all day. We can go all week. (Laughs)
Robin Lail:
(Laughs). So um, I had always been afraid of trying to start over.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
You know, I did not have 17, 1800 acres of land, I did not have a winery rebuilt in 1883, I did not have a lovely Victorian mansion with four acres of garden.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
I had no there, there.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
And by the way, um, when I started, I had two and a half acres of grapes. And no capital. But -
Doug Shafer:
That's scary.
Robin Lail:
Oh it's very scary.
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs)
Robin Lail:
(Laughs) It's lunatic is what it is. But it was very apparent to me that if I didn't try, you know, it's just all going to go away.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
For sure. And so, we started with nothing. It's been a very interesting path. Uh, for a long time, can you imagine? For a long time, I also started pretty simultaneously at a company called Connections.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
And Connections, uh, was in the business of entertaining influencers and changers, throughout the country.
Doug Shafer:
Hmm.
Robin Lail:
People, people who would stand behind us, should prohibition, the prohibitionist be effective and coming back again. People that would come to um, bolster the wine business. And I started Connections because I wanted to very much to make a mark, some kind of a mark for the vintners to replicate what my dad had done. And you know what I never figured out, Doug, was at the time I started doing that, there are a lot of vintners.
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs)
Robin Lail:
There were a lot. There were not nine vintners. There were a whole lot. Because there had been this huge uptick. In the 80's & 90's which continues today.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
But, so, to be of some importance was not going to be easy. So, this, this company was to arrange extraordinary visits to Napa valley for people in positions of power and influence. And um, I spent 10 years doing that, and so that basically, and then there was a woman, I don't know if you ever crossed paths with her, she's a marvelous woman named Katie Span.
Doug Shafer:
No, I don't know her.
Robin Lail:
And Katie Span was a powerhouse who was very successful in business and um, a very good friend of mine. And so, now Lail Vineyards is creeping along simultaneously to this other business that is taking absolutely every moment of my time.
Doug Shafer:
Oh is it, that's, that's great.
Robin Lail:
Oh yes, right out of the starting gate. And um, which just, and she finally said to me, "Robin, what are you doing? This is ridiculous. Your heritage lies here in Lail Vineyards, and you're spending all of like your time over here and not developing your Lail Vineyards. What are you doing?" And so, point was well taken, you know? And I said, "Ah." So.
Doug Shafer:
I don't know if I agree. Where's your passion? Or is it, or, is it?
Robin Lail:
It was a passion for both.
Doug Shafer:
Exactly, what's wrong with having two passions?
Robin Lail:
So in the world of- Cause I love people.
Doug Shafer:
There you go, I mean.
Robin Lail:
Okay, oh well no you can have two passions. But if the pas-
Doug Shafer:
Yeah, you can have more than two.
Robin Lail:
Okay, okay.
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs)
Robin Lail:
Can I have three?
Doug Shafer:
You can have three.
Robin Lail:
I have to go now.
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs)
Robin Lail:
(Laughs) uh so.
Doug Shafer:
Well I'm glad, I'm glad you've got them both. But tell me about the wines, tell me what, what kind of wine is Lail making these days.
Robin Lail:
Lail is making six wines.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
We're making um, one two three, one two three four, Cabernet Sauvignons, and two Sauvignon Blanc.
Doug Shafer:
Got it. And you've got your original vineyard, Napanook, and you bought another Vineyard up on Howell mountain?
Robin Lail:
Um, we have our original vineyard, Totem, which is across the street from Napanook, it was originally a part of Napanook. But much more interestingly, frankly um, Doug, when um, George Yount planted the first Vineyard in 1839 in Napa Valley, um, Totem, the little two and a half acre property, um, sits on part of that original, the land where that original vineyard was, and so I was talking earlier about the soul of the valley.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Robin Lail:
So I think there's some soul that comes out of that, out of that depth of history. I'm a little um, perhaps silly that way, but um, I, I feel that very strongly, so.
Doug Shafer:
I think that's perfect, and you know, everybody drives by that spot. When you come into Napa valley, and you're on the Highway 29, it's four lanes, and it chokes down to two lanes right? Just north of Yountville on your right, if you're heading north is where Totem is.
Robin Lail:
That's right. And that's where we grow the grapes for our single vineyard. Um, Georgia, Sauvignon Blanc.
Doug Shafer:
Got it. That's the one, that's my favorite.
Robin Lail:
Oh I love it.
Doug Shafer:
And you've got a couple, but tell me about Blueprint, cause you've got a couple wines named Blueprint right?
Robin Lail:
So we do have a couple wines named Blueprint. So when we got into the business, nothing would do, but then I tried to make wines of the highest quality. You know, it's called chasing Shafer. (Laughs)
Doug Shafer:
Oh stop, really stop that right now. (Laughs)
Robin Lail:
So um, we've worked on that long and hard, and we've been very lucky and um, very lucky with the critics. Very lucky.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
So, but it's very important to um, generate younger people coming into your business.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
And so that was the reason for starting to make Blueprint Wines, we make a Blueprint Cabernet and a Blueprint Sauvignon Blanc. And originally, the wines were called Blueprint in honor of my husband John Lail. Who is an architect who has designed over 50 wineries in Napa Valley, and done a huge number of wine caves as well.
Doug Shafer:
He's done that many wine, I didn't know he did more than 50, wow.
Robin Lail:
Yes. So lovely to salute that.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
Those will probably last longer than the wines we're making, although I'm not sure. (Laughs)
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs)
Robin Lail:
Um, however uh, last year, we uh, moved forward with the Blueprint wines and the Blueprint wines are wines meant to be of great value. Um, retail pricing is um, modest I think.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
It's $80 for the Cabernet and uh, $40 for the Sauvignon Blanc. And they're great value wines.
Doug Shafer:
Super.
Robin Lail:
So you get a lot more for your buck than um, what the price tag says.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Robin Lail:
But, um, and again, of great interests that we found that these wines which we were originally directing at a younger audience um, have vertical appeal, so that's very exciting.
Doug Shafer:
That's great.
Robin Lail:
So I find them on the counters of friends of mine in the wine business.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
Which is a great salute, I love that. And now you have two of your own cellar. (Laughs)
Doug Shafer:
Thank you very much by the way.
Robin Lail:
Because I brought them here today.
Doug Shafer:
I know, thank you.
Robin Lail:
(Laughs) but um, just recently, we have changed the direction of the Blueprint wines, so at least the reason behind them, and um, I personally and my staff are real believers that we're living in a climate crisis.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
That is of great magnitude. And I recently was appointed as the United States Representatives of the Porto Protocol.
Doug Shafer:
I was gonna ask you about that. That's, congratulations, that's really cool.
Robin Lail:
Thank you.
Doug Shafer:
Tell me about it, can you tell me about that?
Robin Lail:
Yes I can, yes I can.
Doug Shafer:
Yes, you're the, yeah.
Robin Lail:
So the Porto Protocol was founded in Porto, Portugal.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
In July of 2018, um, and it was founded by Adrian Bridge who is the CEO of Taylor Fladgate.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
In Portugal. And uh, the keynote speaker of the first conference, it was a conference that started the initiative, uh, was Barack Obama. And, the idea is this is an initiative that is principally directed towards um, vintners and growers. And the idea is to drive people to become members and as a part of the membership, the new requirements are pretty little.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
Um, there's a letter of principles you have to sign which is pretty simple. And then you agree to take action, and um, upgrade what you're doing.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Robin Lail:
It can be in a small way or a very big way, it doesn't matter just to take action.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative), taking action.
Robin Lail:
To move forward, to modify your carbon footprint on the planet Earth. And the agricultural business is um, particularly, the wine business is very well geared to that. Um, vineyards sequester carbon dioxide, but there are many things that we can do in our vineyards that improve that even more. Um, wineries generate a lot of carbon dioxide. And so, um, very often um, vintners believe that they have carbon credits coming from the, from the vineyard to counterbalance their carbon dioxide production. Which is true. But you know, it's, it's a time for us to be looking about, really seriously about what we're doing and how we're doing it.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
And, and to again, to take action, it's pretty simple. And the idea for me, my primary excitement is to um, attempt to generate as many members as I can, not only for the impact on the footprint that they're making, but also to build a loud voice. And I remember very well, you know I recently went to uh, uh, climate conference and Jerry Brown was speaking and he said something that was so obvious, but so succinct, and it was, "That if you want politicians, um, to come to your side in regards to anything you're doing."
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
He said, "It's important to create a loud voice." And he said, "Then they will come. Because their primary interest generally is in keeping their seat, that's their basic interest."
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
So pleasing that people.
Doug Shafer:
I'd have to, have to agree with that.
Robin Lail:
(Laughs), so um, I'm, I'm very excited um, the Napa Valley Vintners have joined the protocol, and in addition to that, we have um, a number of other people here in the valley. And, um, this is a global effort, and uh, I think we're gonna do some, make, do some good.
Doug Shafer:
That's great.
Robin Lail:
So, we're not gonna create you know, whenever you talk to people about the climate crisis Doug, what happens is that people immediately shut down.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
"It's too vast, it's too uncontrollable."
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Robin Lail:
"It's too far gone, it's too ..." All these things. "And what can i do?" And the fact of the matter is that we can all do something, but because it's so vast, people usually go to the door marked, those other people have to do it. The big people have to do it. The really big people.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Robin Lail:
And it's true, the really big people do have to do it, but all of us.
Doug Shafer:
All of us.
Robin Lail:
Need to pay attention and, and lean into it I think.
Doug Shafer:
And, and your, your sales of Blueprint wines I think,
Robin Lail:
So-
Doug Shafer:
A percentage goes to climate change.
Robin Lail:
Yes it does. So, now it's ten percent of our, of our online sales um, go to an organization that's deep in the fight against climate change.
Doug Shafer:
Good for you. That's really great.
Robin Lail:
Thank you, thank you, that's very, you know I wish it could be much faster.
Doug Shafer:
Well it's, you know, you gotta take one step at a time, that's a start. And you started, so, hats off to you.
Robin Lail:
Thank you, thank you.
Doug Shafer:
So if people want to find Lail Vineyard's wines, where do they go?
Robin Lail:
Well I think the best place for them to go frankly is to Lail Vineyard's, um, either by telephone.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
And speak to Chantal, who is our Direct to Consumer, individual, or to our website.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Robin Lail:
Um, which is www.lailvineyards.com
Doug Shafer:
Great, good.
Robin Lail:
And we'd love to have you come by the way.
Doug Shafer:
Yes, check out, the Cabernets are fantastic and the Sauvignon Blanc is my favorite. So Robin, thank you so much for being here, this has been fantastic, thanks for getting me all that historical information right, it's uh, quite a story.
Robin Lail:
Oh Dough, it's been so much fun to talk to you. I knew it would be.
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs)
Robin Lail:
And (laughs) I go away just clapping my hands, thank you, you're great to work with, I loved it.
Doug Shafer:
Thanks for your time.
Robin Lail:
Thank you.