Full Transcript
Doug Shafer:
Everybody, welcome back. It's Doug Shafer, another episode of The Taste. Uh, today we welcome a long-time friend, family friend, who I do not get to see often enough. Native of Napa, he's being making great wines for a long time, many years. Longer than me, which is saying something. And, uh, but we'd like to welcome John Kongsgaard of Kongsgaard Wines. John, how are you doing?
John Kongsgaard:
Very well, thank you. Nice to talk to you.
Doug Shafer:
Good to have you on. I was thinking of last night about the first time we met, and you know, you might have to help me out with this. I think it was at a, a holiday/Christmas/Thanksgiving family dinner. Your family and my family. Was that when it was?
John Kongsgaard:
That could well be, yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course I knew your, I knew your dad before I knew you.
Doug Shafer:
Right. And I think there was a time when...
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Uh, it was some holiday where your folks brought all you guys over to our house and all the kids, you know, had dinner together with those guys. So, I think that was when it was, so...
John Kongsgaard:
There you go.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah, probably was late seventies, something like that. Something, yeah. Anyway, a lot to cover with you. Um, there's your story, the winery. But, uh, I think we've gotta start with your mom and dad, big part of this. Um, I think, I, as I've read, if I've read correctly, you're a fifth generation Napan, is that correct?
John Kongsgaard:
That's correct, on my mother's side. Yep.
Doug Shafer:
All right. Well let's start with mom. Tell, what's her story?
John Kongsgaard:
Okay, well Lorraine was quite a character. We should actually go back a couple generations 'cause this is the...
Doug Shafer:
Good.
John Kongsgaard:
This is the, the funniest part is that her, I guess, my great great grandfather was called Governor Lilburn Boggs.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
And he had the distinction of being the governor of Missouri when the Mormons tried to settle there. And he ran them out on a rail.
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs).
John Kongsgaard:
And the last, last Mormon to leave shot him standing on the state house, uh, porch. He was then, I think impeached or least left in disgrace and came on a wagon train with of all people the Donner Party group.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, no.
John Kongsgaard:
Saw, yeah. Saw through them and went up to Oregon and came back down to California when it was still part of Mexico and worked for General Vallejo.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, wow.
John Kongsgaard:
So, we've been in charge here for a long time.
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs).
John Kongsgaard:
Okay, so that's my mother's descendant who got us here. Oh, and add color to that, Governor Boggs was married to Panthea Boone who was said to be Daniel Boone's ugliest granddaughter.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
So there you go. Anyway, there's a little-
Doug Shafer:
Kongsgaard you can't, you, you can't make this stuff up.
John Kongsgaard:
No.
Doug Shafer:
This is too good.
John Kongsgaard:
No, no.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, my.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah, it's funny.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
Uh, yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Okay. (laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
That's, that's how we got here. Anyway, my mother was quite a different story. Lorraine Streblo was her maiden name.
Doug Shafer:
Your mother.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
My memory, I'm just interrupting, she was a wonderful woman.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
I adored her. But go ahead, keep going?
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah, she was a dear soul, a great mother. And a pioneer in her day, she was the, one of the first, uh, women to graduate from Stanford Law School. So, uh, very independent minded, uh, kind of a rascal. So didn't suffer fools well, uh, but was nonetheless sweet to the people that she loved, including me.
Doug Shafer: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Right.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah, so she was, she was, uh, obviously grew up in Napa and met my dad when they were both at Stanford Law School.
Doug Shafer:
Got it, so all right, well that's your mom Lorraine. So how about your dad, the judge? What's his story?
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah, the, the... The judge was born, uh, to Norwegian immigrants, his grandparents came from Norway and as teenagers independent from one another, met in Alaska and settled in Everett, Washington, North of Seattle. And he was blown up in the war, in the second world war on a, on a minesweeper in the Pacific. And ended up, uh, in a naval hospital in California, in Oakland. Uh, and that's what got him to California through, and, and, and eventually met my mom. So he was a judge, um, he was a terrible lawyer apparently 'cause he could-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
... always see, see the other guys' point of view so clearly. So it's good that he got out of that and became a judge. So he, he was like the judge in Napa for a long distinguished career. Not, not a hanging judge, they all said. But a very, uh, even-keel wonderful guy. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Oh he was a great guy. I did know him pretty well and, and we glossed over. He was in, in serious injury. He lost, he lost part of most of his, his leg. Right? Didn't-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah, he lost, he lost his left leg in the Pacific. Yep.
Doug Shafer:
Right. And then I remember-
John Kongsgaard:
Did, did slow him down.
Doug Shafer:
It did, I, well, yeah, 'cause I remember I'd see him out in the golf course and he, he was avid golfer, hit the heck outta the ball.
John Kongsgaard:
Absolutely.
Doug Shafer:
And I don't know if you know this story. I met him socially a couple times, but the time I really got to know was, uh, when I had to testify at a, believe it or not, a murder trial in Napa and he was the judge and I had-
John Kongsgaard:
Oh boy.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. And this was something that happened when I was in high school and I saw this car that was, and a year later I'm home for vacation, you know, Christmas for college. And I'm reading about in the local paper about this trial and this, this particular car, it was an old Cadillac ambulance. And I said to my mom, I said, "I, I remember that night. I remember seeing that car when I was dropping off this gal after a basketball game." And she said you're kidding. And so she was on, she and dad were on their way to a dinner party. They ran into your folks. She makes this comment to your dad, (laughs) the judge.
John Kongsgaard:
Oh no.
Doug Shafer:
The next day the DA is knocking on our front door saying we need to speak to your son (laughs). So...
John Kongsgaard:
Wow.
Doug Shafer: I ended up testifying at this murder trial and I, I didn't, you know, all I could say was I saw this car, I couldn't identify anything. But-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
... at one point the def- defense lawyer was starting to get, get after me pretty aggressively. And your dad was great. He kind of came in and shut him down. So at that point-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Good.
Doug Shafer:
... he was my favorite for sure. (laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. There you go. Great.
Doug Shafer:
All right. So he was a judge, here for a long time, famous in Napa. And you, so you were, when were you born?
John Kongsgaard:
Uh, '51.
Doug Shafer:
Got it. And, uh, two sisters, Mary and Martha, as I recall.
John Kongsgaard:
Yep. One older, one younger.
Doug Shafer:
Got it. So growing up in Napa, what was that like?
John Kongsgaard:
Uh, it was a little, it was kind of a cow town, as we used to say. I mean, there, nobody lived here. There was no restaurant in Napa that you could go to on like on mom's birthday. We would all get dressed up and we had to go either to Sonoma or San Francisco. I mean, it was a real backwater.
Doug Shafer:
Hmm.
John Kongsgaard:
And so we're saying there wasn't much of a wine industry then either. Um, for example, when I graduated from high school in 1969, I think there were about 18 wineries in Napa County.
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
John Kongsgaard:
So yeah, those are the old days.
Doug Shafer:
Compared to 600 now, something like that.
John Kongsgaard:
Yep. Yep. So, but growing up were your folks into wine? Was there wine in the house?
Doug Shafer:
Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. My dad was a good friend of Louis Martini among other people and Andre Tchelistcheff, uh, lived just down the street from my us and became a great friend of mine, uh, in the end. Uh, so yeah, there was always wine. He was sort of the, uh, wine ambassador when his law school buddies would come around, he would show them the difference between a Claret bottle and a burgundy bottle and...
John Kongsgaard:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
I mean the real basics, but yeah, he was a, he was a friend of all of those people. Um, the Mondavis and the Mondavis and yeah, we had, oh, it was Christmas. We had Charles Krug special select Cabernet with a little red stripe on the corner and-
John Kongsgaard:
Oh, I remember that.
Doug Shafer:
... Old BVs and yeah.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Oh, that's great.
Doug Shafer:
I still have some Louis Martini wine that was in my dad's collection when he died, uh, from back to the fifties.
John Kongsgaard:
Oh, wow.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah, he was an avid, avid wine nut.
John Kongsgaard:
Good, good.
Doug Shafer:
And uh, my, uh, crack research team, we found out the high school for you was down in Monterey. Is that correct?
John Kongsgaard:
Yep. Yep. I got shipped out. I was a fiercely dyslexic, uh, terrible student. And so I was not sent to reform school quite, but I was sent to a high disciplined college preparatory school for boys.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
Robert Louis Stevenson. Turned out to be a great thing for me. Not least because I got to, uh, leave town as a teenager in the town where my dad was the judge.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
John Kongsgaard:
So was that, not a bad thing.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. That's not good 'cause...
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) You don't want the share of calling your dad at night? (laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
No, no, that's right.
Doug Shafer:
And high school interest, sports, I'm, I'm, I'm thinking music was a big interest probably then.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah, that's, uh, no, it was in high school that I-
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
... became a cla- classic music, classical music devotee. Not, not much sports. Sports was mostly cross country. So we could run down to the beach, dig up the football and the Cabernet bottle that were all buried, like, uh, treasure on Pebble Beach.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
So after, so 1969. So I gotta ask because, uh, you're little ahead of my time. So, and you know, I'm in high school watching the news, so you're going to college and I'm watching the, the protests and all the hippies-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
... and the all.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah, yeah.
Doug Shafer:
So were you like a long hair hippie guy? Is that, was that your look?
John Kongsgaard:
A medium.
Doug Shafer:
Medium.
John Kongsgaard:
Medium hair-
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
... hippie guy. Uh, and I, my father who was a war hero and a public figure. Even, even on the draft board for example, um, he and I just truly defined the generation gap. Te was the war hero and I was the Vietnam protestor, you know, snot nose intellectual telling my dad that, uh, all wars were evil and I'm sorry about your leg, but uh, I'm not going to Vietnam. So I actually worked my way, uh, toward becoming a conscientious objector to his incredible chagrin and even shame.
In the end we all patched it up and I, I got out of the, the CO, um, track because I was, I'm from the era of the, of the draft lottery. And I was lucky to draw a very high number so I could spare my father's honor. I dropped the conscientious objector application and just-
Doug Shafer:
And just-
John Kongsgaard:
... got out of the war that way. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Got it. Oh man. You know, I never even thought about that. That must have been really, that must have been tough, 'cause you...
John Kongsgaard:
It was a rough time.
Doug Shafer:
It was.
John Kongsgaard:
I mean, there was a kid in my dorm in Colorado who we were all getting drunk, watching the bingo game of our lives as they pulled your-
Doug Shafer:
Pulled your.
John Kongsgaard:
... number out of the, yeah. And anyway, one of our buddies was number six and he was gone before you knew it and came back in a body bag.
Doug Shafer:
Oh.
John Kongsgaard:
Just like that. Just like that. Yeah. Roughest, terrible period of American history. No doubt about it.
Doug Shafer:
It, it really is. I was on the tail end. I, I was, they were still pulling numbers for me. So I remember that turned I 18, I went down to the Napa post office, downtown, Napa, you know, and registered and the whole thing. And unfortunately, fortunately I got a, a high number at that point that war was winding down, but uh...
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Well I'm glad you guys patched it up. That's good.
John Kongsgaard:
We did.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. That's good.
John Kongsgaard:
We'll get into this at some point, but um, we need to talk about my, our, our most noted wine is, is called The Judge. And um, I can tell you that now or later, but it's, uh, has to do with this period and yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Well, tell me, tell me, tell us the story now.
John Kongsgaard:
Okay.
Doug Shafer:
It's appropriate.
John Kongsgaard:
So, so I started growing Chardonnay, uh, at the family place on Stone Crest Drive just east of the town of Napa, right on the city limits actually. Um, with the good fortune of our neighbor was Andre Tchelistcheff. And he, I, just getting excited about planting a little couple acres there, uh, when my interest in wine was getting the best of me, and Andre said we should grow Chardonnay, I thought, "Really?"
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
There was no Chardonnay in Napa. Anyway, he turned out to be right. And that vineyard is now, uh, our flagship. But, uh, in my dad died in, uh, 2001. And in the subsequent vintage, we were, um, well, I'll back up and say that when, when we were having our arguments about the Vietnam war and war in general and all that, uh, we managed to keep our friendship going by him helping me while I was working on the weekends, getting this land cleared and planted, uh, to grapes. And it was perfect 'cause I could send him off to the far corner of the field to do a burn or something and we didn't have to talk at all except at lunch and then we'd have a beer at the end and that was it.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
Anyway, so we kind of kept it all going that way. And we, by the end of his life, we had certainly patched it up. He saw the folly of this, of the Vietnam war and-
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
John Kongsgaard:
... we agreed on a lot of things that we did, that we disagreed on early on. Anyway, when he died, uh, in '01 I was out there for the vintage, um, picking, getting ready to pick the grapes and I had a sentimental moment thinking about him and I sent the crew home and just kept a couple of people and we picked, uh, what would became a barrel worth of grapes from the favorite part of the vineyard and made that as a one-off wine, which I called The Judge. And the idea was just to make a barrel in his memory and give it to the law school friends and was gonna be it.
And then the wine was eventually discovered by various critics and um, while it was still sitting in the barrel and uh, a big deal was made of it. And so eventually it became a commercial wine and now it's, and now it's our, our biggest deal. But it was all in honor of my dad and because we kept our friendship going while working in that vineyard.
Doug Shafer:
Oh John.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Great story. Thanks for sharing that.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
That's, oh, all right. I'm driving, I'm driving up the hill to see you 'cause I wanna share a bottle of that with you. (laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
We'll do that. We'll do that. We'll tell dad stories, that's for sure.
John Kongsgaard:
I, I'd love it.
Doug Shafer: That'd be great. Ah, thanks for that. So going back to hippie land. So after high school-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
... college was Colorado, right?
John Kongsgaard:
College was yeah, I went to Colorado. I was, I was, um, just backing up. Uh, I graduated from high school in '69 and I was interested in agriculture. My mother's father Streblow was a cattle rancher. They had a big, beautiful ranch that's now under water at Lake Berryessa.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
And there were a lot of cattle and horses around our place where we had all grew up in Napa. Um, so I thought I, I really wanted to be in agriculture somehow, but my grandfather said you're never gonna make it in the cattle business. This is a big business for me, but it's basically a hobby supported by his quarry business. So I, I don't know how to do this. Maybe I'll go into forestry and be a forest ranger. I wanted to be out with plants and nature.
Doug Shafer:
Right. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
John Kongsgaard:
Anyway, there was kind of no possibility, um, at that point other than maybe the forestry route. So I went to Colorado State University where I could be at the same time, a, uh, science, like a plant science person, and also study literature which was my main passion. And I thought, if I can't figure out the ag side, I'll become a literature professor. So I was really on the track for that. And by the time I graduated, uh, in 73, the wine business had absolutely exploded.
Doug Shafer:
Right. Right.
John Kongsgaard:
That's when it went from a dozen wineries to 100 wineries in that four year period. The world was crying for enologists, um, because all these people like your father, um, had moved out here and had a big intention, but didn't really know how to make wine and they needed, there was suddenly a, a need for the technical class. So ... I, I spent a year thinking about it. Um, I got a job at Christian Brothers, and which was then the biggest winery in Napa as a, you know, a union, union racker and blender (laughs).
Doug Shafer:
And that was the, that's where CIA Greystone is, correct? Was that or is that one of it?
John Kongsgaard:
That, that was them also, but this was the kind of factory that now belongs to Sutter home that north of Louis Martini.
Doug Shafer:
Got it. Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah, it looks like an oil refinery.
Doug Shafer:
Uh, (laughs).
John Kongsgaard:
Anyway, I worked there just 'cause I had to get a job, and I made enough money to go knock around Europe, uh, on a Eurail pass, uh, for a year listening to mostly listening to classical music. And in that year was my debate. Am I gonna be a winemaker and go back to college and learn all this stuff? Or am I gonna stay in the ivory tower and become an academic? And by the time the year was over, I had figured out that I would go back. And so I went, uh, a year and a half to Monterey Peninsula College to study, uh, the prereqs.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
And then I had six months at Napa College. And so with two years of, of going back to junior college basically to get the science I got to Davis as a graduate student.
Doug Shafer:
So what year was that?
John Kongsgaard:
I guess I got into Davis in, uh, '75.
Doug Shafer:
Got it. So that, so you're-
John Kongsgaard:
76. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Got it. So I was there, I started '75 as a freshman. So our paths never crossed. Um...
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. You were a little kid.
Doug Shafer:
I was little kid and, uh, the only time I crossed paths with a bunch of folks in your generation of winemakers was uh, Dr. Cook's vit 110 class, I think it was.
John Kongsgaard:
Oh yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
You know, I took, I think I took that as a junior. I don't think you were in it. Tony Sodor was in it, Dick Ward and-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Jeff Corison.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Almost.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
They were, yeah. They were sitting in front. I was sitting back messing around. But-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
... he was a, he was a character (laughs).
John Kongsgaard:
Yes he was.
Doug Shafer:
Anyway. Okay. Well good. So you were, so you got out at grad school, and then what about your folks? Were they into, what were they, what'd they think about you getting into wine?
John Kongsgaard:
Uh, I think they were just barely open-minded let's say. It was, it was okay with them, but they thought I should have gone to law school I think, but-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
... Martha, my little sister did that. We tricked her and made her do it.
Doug Shafer:
I remember that she did. Yeah. She did go to law school. I remember that.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Okay. You tricked her, God it’s terrible, siblings.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
All right. So you... All right. So you, you get outta Davis, um...
John Kongsgaard:
Yep.
Doug Shafer:
And uh, but wait a minute, I think. Did you meet Maggie at Davis?
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Well actually we met just before Davis.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
But we, we, we met when we were at Napa Community College, and it's a very sweet story. Uh, I'm still quite ferociously dyslexic. So I was, I was in the organic chem lab trying to put together a cash still or something, some apparatus with a drawing in front of me and all these glass parts. And I, I just couldn't do it. I was all coming out backwards. And Maggie, Maggie came like an angel. Uh, I didn't know her at all. It just came like a benign force across the lab and, you know-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
... took the thing out of my hands and put it all together. (laughs) And, and I mean that was it. That was the moment. Uh, it was amazing.
Doug Shafer:
Oh wow. That's great.
John Kongsgaard:
So we had a, our romance started at the, it's funny because we were... the community college is a wonderful force in the community and I'm a big supporter of it, but it was always the threat. Like if you really screwed up in high school, like you're just gonna go to the junior college son.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
So there I was already a successful academic, but back at the junior college (laughs)-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
... and there was Maggie who was reinventing herself also, she'd been a fine art undergrad and she wanted to go to Davis for horticulture. Um, so we were both doing our prereqs together and then went to Davis together and by the end of my grad school we were, uh, we were a couple.
Doug Shafer:
... and carried on and got married and the rest is history.
John Kongsgaard:
Yep.
Doug Shafer:
Got it.
John Kongsgaard:
That's it. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
So meanwhile though, you're, um, you mentioned Andre Tchelistcheff who lived down the street.
John Kongsgaard:
Yep.
Doug Shafer:
So you guys got to be good friends, which was how, how neat (laughs) how neat for you.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer: And I-
John Kongsgaard:
Fortuitous.
Doug Shafer:
And I know there's another guy who had a big impact 'cause it also plays into my dad's story a little bit. But tell me about Nathan Faye, your relationship with him.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Yeah. So Nathan was a, was a family friend. Uh, obviously, uh, your neighbor there. Uh, he, I think was the first, maybe the first grower that maybe the first Cabernet grower in the whole Stags Leap area. So Nathan was a family friend. His British wife was, uh, the, kind of the founder of the Napa Symphony-
... and she had a soft spot for me 'cause I was a music person and anyway, so I got to know them pretty well through my family, even before I was interested in wine. And then in '75, I guess I was still at the community college the year before I went to Davis, uh, Nathan, uh, helped me make my first ever barrel of wine.
Doug Shafer:
Oh.
John Kongsgaard:
And that was interestingly enough it was Atlas Peak grapes where I am now. It was from the Mead ranch and Nathan was a fantastic home brewer. I mean the legendary home winemaker. And he, um, invited me to join him to buy and, and go in on a ton of Zinfandel from, from the Meade ranch. So 75 Meade Zin was my first ever barrel of wine.
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
John Kongsgaard:
And, and then while I was at graduate-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
... school in '76, 7 and 8, uh, Nathan, uh, sold me at the kind of family discount, uh, half a ton of Cabernet every year. So the first, the first great wine I ever made was ‘76 Fay Cabernet.
Doug Shafer:
Oh wow.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
And was that, and the stories I've heard and you've got, I think you were part of this. There were a bunch of you guys that came over from Davis.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
And Nathan, you, Nathan.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
I don't know how, how it started, but there was like this, you guys would come over and pick grapes, he'd let you take, make wine then you'd spend the weekend and basically-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
... you know, have, he was drinking.
John Kongsgaard:
He was drink a lot of -
Doug Shafer:
... good wines. He was your guy. Right?
John Kongsgaard:
Yes. He was our, he was our mentor. So that was in, in '70... in '77 I think it was, uh, while I was at Davis, Nathan, um, allowed me to get a whole, any, any number of my friends could come in on this deal. And we each got a half a ton of grapes and we went back to our graduate school garages. Like in my case I had a little home brew winery barn at my parents' place. So it was Jack Stewart and uh, me and, uh, Dan Lee and Tom Peterson. Mike Fisher, who became an accountant.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
John Kongsgaard:
Wine accountant. Uh, that was more or less the group. Oh, and Dick Ward.
Doug Shafer:
And Dick ward. Yeah.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. So we all, we all made our wine that year and, uh, it was a, it was, it was '77. It was the second of the drought vintages. And Nathan said, (laughs) "Hope you guys are getting smart in school 'cause I wouldn't know how to make wine out of a stupid year like this."
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
But we in fact all made wonderful wine and we, we uh, whoever's left of us, we still have the odd bottle and get together and drink them and it was a great experience. And I think the first wine, most of the, my colleagues ever made was that home brew from Fay.
Doug Shafer:
Wow. That's good.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. And Nathan was our, he was our mentor and our drinking buddy and famous story where we were all, um, getting into his German wine.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
Getting into his German wine cellar and, uh, I think most of us were asleep in the garden. Uh, in other words passed out in the garden-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
... when, when uh, Nellie, Mrs. Fay, came home and she read Nathan the right act. He 'cause of the last man standing, but he was not in great shape either. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
And, and I kind of woke up with one eye and looked at Nathan and he said, "Oh, never mind Nellie. She's just mad she missed all the fun."
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) Oh...
John Kongsgaard:
Which was not true.
Doug Shafer:
So I've, I've-
Doug Shafer:
Anyway. Yeah. I've heard of this story from different, from some of the, those rag tag group you guys have, but, uh, so jealous, but, um-
John Kongsgaard:
That was fun.
Doug Shafer:
But, but fortunate because I got to know him too. And, um ... I'll tell you, I wanna tell you about him and dad in a minute, but-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
But, uh, I do remember Nellie quite well 'cause Liz was a part of the Symphony board. So we-
John Kongsgaard:
Oh yeah.
Doug Shafer:
... I'd end up going to these Symphony fundraiser dinners and-
John Kongsgaard:
Right.
Doug Shafer:
You know, it was Liz's thing. I was, I went along for the ride, but, um, I'd always end up seeing Nathan there.
John Kongsgaard:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Doug Shafer:
And it would be at the end of the dinner and people were milling about, and I'd run over and say, "Hey Nathan, how you doing?" And John without fail, every time he'd look at me and say, "How's it looking this year? How's the crop looking?"
John Kongsgaard:
Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
I mean, it was just like, um, how's it looking? How's it looking? You know, is it, um, yeah. Cause he was retired, but he always wanted know about the harvest. So it would be great-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
... 'cause we'd talk grapes. And then later after Nellie died, you know, he remarried, uh, Mary Jane, Mary Jane Turnbull.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
... and I ended up buying Merlot from her, from them.
John Kongsgaard:
Right.
Doug Shafer:
And then he died. I bought her grapes for gosh, 20 years. So I got to know Mary-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
... Jane really well. And she was this-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah, wonderful.
Doug Shafer:
... sweetheart. So it was really fun. And the dad-Nathan's story. I remember coming home from Davis, this is '77, '78. And dad was thinking about doing a winery and I think he was, he might have even approached you. I think you were in one of those meetings once, but he was trying to get Nathan to be his partner. And I, um...
John Kongsgaard:
Oh, uh-huh.
Doug Shafer:
And I was, we were cleaning out his, some of his files after he died. I found some notes, 'cause he kept everything.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
And like, I saw this, you know, uh, he used to take copious notes and pro-con comparisons, do this, do that. But one was specifically about Nathan or having a partner and his, his note to himself was Nathan knows how to make wine. I don't, I don't know (laughs) anything about it.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
You know, he could be. And I think he really courted Nathan and Nathan finally said, you know, "I just I'm happy growing grapes. I really don't wanna get in the wine business." So...
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah, that's it.
Doug Shafer:
But, um, I remember that pretty clearly, so-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
... good stuff. But meanwhile, you start making wine. What was, when you got out of the garage making it, where'd you, what was your, what's your life history there?
John Kongsgaard:
My first ever job was, uh, 19, vintage '79. Maggie and I were just married and my pal from, one of my pals from Davis, Doug Noll who's a Zinfandel maker now.
Doug Shafer:
Right, right.
John Kongsgaard:
Doug and I, uh, convinced some, uh, investment group in, uh, Healdsburg to hire us to build them and then, uh, make, build a winery and make the wine for them. So it was a place called Balverne. And it was a short-lived thing. It was a bunch of good enthusiastic guys who maybe their business sense wasn't what we thought it might be. But it was a great opportunity for these two... You know, we was really the one-eyed leading the blind. We ... we were, (laughs) we, we, we were pretty green.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
John Kongsgaard:
But you know, there was a big need for winemakers. So we cut our teeth, Doug and I did there and that, that was just lasted for a couple years and then the winery, I think they decided it was a bad idea and sold the vineyard and the winery to somebody else.
And right when it was starting to crash, that seemed like this opportunity was gonna come to an end. I was just fortuitously courted by, uh, Peter and Sua Newton to come out and take over, uh, at the Newton Winery in St. Helena. This is after Peter ran Sterling, founded Sterling and ran it for all those years and then sold it. And with the cash from that decided to build himself a smaller more boutiquey place. Got it up on the, on the bottom of just part way up Spring Mountain.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
So that was my, that was my first really big deal job.
Doug Shafer:
And that was, uh, when was that? Ninety...
John Kongsgaard:
That was the first vintage was '83.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
I, I did what you're not supposed to do. I got a new job, a new house and a new kid, all in the same week actually.
Doug Shafer:
Oh.
John Kongsgaard:
'Cause Maggie was, Maggie was pregnant with Alex.
Doug Shafer: Oh.
John Kongsgaard:
And, and this thing came up and I dove on it and anyway, we all survived it. Um, yeah. So I worked there from, from seventy, no, sorry. From '83, and '83 until '95. So 13 vintages.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. You were, you were there a long time. You were the guy at Newton and help me out. Um, that's when you started doing the unfiltered Chard, am I right?
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
So, yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Right. No, you succe- this was, people don't know this right now. This, everybody out there. John Kongsgaard started doing something we thought he was a crazy man. He was making Chardonnay and not filtering it. And that was, you just did not do that. Trust me. 'Cause I've had to rebottle wines. You know, you gotta filter white wine. You're outta your mind if you don't and all of a sudden this thing's, it's gorgeous wine, it's getting great reviews and Kongsgaard's up there in Newton making this thing called unfiltered Chardonnay, it's blowing up around the country. Everybody loves it. And we're all going, "How do you do that? You can't do that. You can't do that." So I, I really want to, can you tell me this story? How did this happen?
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, Peter, my good fortune. I mean, I had many great things happen while I was at Newton, but the best part of it was that, uh, Peter was a Brit. Um, and he expected me to go to Europe on his nickel every year for two weeks for like a research mission.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
So I was, at Newton we made Bordeaux varieties, Cabernet Merlot, and then we made Chardonnay and a little bit of some Sauvignon Blanc, but so I would each year I would go either to Bordeaux or Burgundy. Um, this is starting in '83 or four.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
John Kongsgaard:
And I discovered, so, you know, I did my research. I had a big wine budget for Peter. I was obliged to spend, you know, thousands of dollars a month on European wine that were, we thought to be like the antecedence of what we were trying to do at Newton.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
So I did my white Burgundy study and then picked the places I wanted to visit. And then over the years repeatedly went to, you know, Bona de maitre and Lafon and Costa Rea and all the great places. Chobar. And in that time, um, California wine was just like a, like a joke in France.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
John Kongsgaard:
They just, they were so not threatened by some curious 30 something year old winemaker coming around-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
... uh, asking questions (laughs) like, you know, vin du Californie, like really? (laughs) You make wine in California? That's funny.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
So yeah. Okay. Just let me know what you're doing here. Anyway. So it was a, it were, they were very open.
Doug Shafer:
That's pretty funny. Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Very, very encouraging. And so I realized, uh, on, after several trips to, to White Burgundy, that they were doing things very differently from how we were taught at Davis.
Doug Shafer: Right.
John Kongsgaard:
And among those things was that, um, they were not adding yeast.
Doug Shafer: Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
They were, they were, uh, fermenting the wine in barrel. They were, um, leaving it in barrel for, the great places were leaving the wine in the barrel for two years. Like the way we made Cabernet.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
And nobody, nobody in Napa had or California had thought of that yet.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
So I came back with my research notes and we thought, "Okay, let's try it." So starting in the, in the late eighties, I think the first year we did it was ‘88.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
Um, on, on an experimental basis. And, uh, the wine was a little, so it was two years in barrel, no, no yeast, uh, spontaneous malolactic.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
John Kongsgaard:
Long aging in the, in the cold cave, uh, and then bottled, but you don't need to filter the wine if you have the patience to leave it in the barrel for two years.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
John Kongsgaard:
And it's, let's say microbiologically stable.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
John Kongsgaard:
It's been all the way th- all the sugars fermented and all the malic acid is turned into lactic acid.
Doug Shafer:
Yes, exactly. So it's, yeah.
John Kongsgaard:
So then the wine is, it's, it's stable. It's not gonna ferment any further.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
So, so, but the wine is just a little tiny bit hazy. And so we did a bottling, uh, of two year age wine, two-year age Chardonnay, uh, one, one little part of it filtered and the other most big part of it not filtered. And then I went around the country to all of Newton's wholesalers and did a, a, uh, did blind tastings. Or I just said here's two wines, they're pretty similar, but you tell me which one they want.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
Which one you like. And it could have been at a wholesaler with very sophisticated staff. It could have been with one of these, you know, booze-driven, uh, companies where they're ba- basically liquor salesman peddling some wine.
So I, I tasted maybe a dozen wholesalers, um, with the full staff, you know, the Friday tasting when everybody comes in and gets lectured by the winemakers and the-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
... whiskey people and so on. Anyway and I said, "Okay, you choose, which one do you like?" And just to the one, everybody liked the wine that was not filtered.
Doug Shafer:
Hmm.
John Kongsgaard:
Better than the other one. I mean, not by a lot, but it was always, it was always the case. And then I said, "Okay, now really look at it. Hold it up to the light. And if it's, uh, do you see that the one you liked is just a little bit hazy." And I'd already won their hearts, they said, "Ah, never mind that."
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
And so we had the, we had the courage then to do it. So 1990 was the first not-filtered. Um, I mean, unfiltered is the wrong word. What's that we said? But it was the first not-filtered two-year aged, uh, white wine bottled in the country I'm sure.
Doug Shafer:
Oh. And it, it just, and it blew up. Right? That's my recollection.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was a, it was a huge success and then suddenly everybody wanted to learn how to do it and I had the pleasure at Newton and then, uh, later on, but especially at Newton, I had the pleasure of having a, a lot of apprentices. Um...
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
John Kongsgaard:
You know, some of the known characters in the business who are just a little younger than I am, uh, they all came and learned how to do it and that, that, uh, message has been passed around the country. And now it's, it's, uh, not, so it's not so unusual.
Doug Shafer:
Exactly.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Well, you're, you're a good man to share. Thank you for that. Which is-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Which is kind of Napa Valley, starting with Robert Mondavi.
John Kongsgaard:
Yep.
Doug Shafer:
Um, and were you, were you, is this when you met Michel Roland? Was he working with you up at Newton?
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Yeah. Roland who's now of course of the most famous of consultants. Um, I was his first, uh, I, we used to say, uh, humorously. I was his first victim, uh, in the country.
Doug Shafer:
What was that like?
John Kongsgaard:
I actually, yeah, it was great.
Doug Shafer:
How'd that, how'd that happen? How'd you guys find Roland or vice versa?
John Kongsgaard:
We, we, we found him in Bordeaux, Peter and Sua Newton and I were, were looking around in Bordeaux to, to try to bring a consultant, uh, to help us with the Bordeaux side. And so we got on to Michel, he was a, had a big consulting practice, uh, in Bordeaux at that time. And when he came, he, he worked for us and for, when Harlan and Levy were Maryvale before Harlan.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
So it was, it was, um, maybe they were in the second year, but anyway, the, the first really three of us, were, was, um, Harlan, Levy, and then he did a little work for Zelma Long at, uh, Simi in those days.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
And it was a blast. He was so fun. He just blew my mind. Like all the things that I got to unlearn when Michel came. Like well, why don't we push the ripeness a little bit? How about this crop is way too heavy. Okay. Michel would say in his bad English, he'd say, "Can we do something?" I'd say like, "What do you wanna do?" We wanna put half of this crop on the ground. I said, "Oh yeah. Okay. I'm gonna tell Tony Truchard to drop half his crop."
Doug Shafer: Yeah.
John Kongsgaard:
No, I don't think so.
Doug Shafer:
No, no. (laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
Anyway, so it evolved because of Michel. I think another, if I have two things that I did in the wine business in Napa that would, I might be remembered for one was this white wine, um, making non-technique of two year aging in no, no filtre.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
John Kongsgaard:
And the other thing is that, um, Peter and I basically invented the so-called acreage contract.
Doug Shafer:
Oh yeah.
John Kongsgaard:
Because Rolland said you gotta get half of these, you gotta go down to three tons of the acre from five. And, uh, then your wine will have concentration. And so we-
Doug Shafer:
So yeah. Explain how that works to people, kind of -
John Kongsgaard:
Okay. So the, the grower makes his money by selling a winery, uh, as many tons of grapes as he can. And, uh, per a ton, let's just say tons per acre. And a Napa can grow anywhere between six and all the way down to two. And even a vineyard that wants to grow four tons to the acre probably makes better wine if it's thinned. Uh, if the crop is thinned down to let's say three or two and a half.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
John Kongsgaard:
This was certainly our conviction in that period. So we had of course a lot of blowback from the growers 'cause we were asking them to throw their money on the ground. And so we would say to the grower, "Okay, you think this is a five ton to the acre vineyard." And let's say the Cabernet costs, you know, whatever it is, $5,000 a ton.
Okay. So here's your $25,000 an acre. Here's the check for all the grapes that you want to grow. Now you have to listen to me and I'm gonna tell you to cut off half of the crop in July. And they said, "Why not? It's better for the vine to have less fruit on it." Uh, and it meant we effectively raised the price of the grapes for ourselves, but what we gained was, um, was worth the money.
Doug Shafer:
You bet.
John Kongsgaard:
So that's, that's how we did it.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
John Kongsgaard:
So those are, those are what Rolland taught me those things. And it was, it was so funny because in the early days he had, I don't have any French really.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
And Michel had almost no English, but we had Spanish in common.
Doug Shafer:
Oh. (laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
So we, we did our, he would come for three or four days, uh, in the growing season and then he would come again and harvest and then maybe one more time for the tastings when we were making the blends. We did the whole thing in Spanish. Uh, and then with the, then the, uh, owners, Peter and Sua Newton would come and have the tasting with us, which we would have to do in English. And Mrs. Newton would say to the, to the, uh, to Michelle, "What do you think of this one?" He would say, "Not bad."
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
"And how about this one?" "Not bad." And then the best one he would say, "Not completely bad." (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
Oh, that's great. That's so funny.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. We had it all kind of private to ourselves, but he, he definitely changed the way we thought about wine.
Doug Shafer:
No, he did, he, uh, made a great impact. And um, you know, the ripeness thing was big and that was something we kind of figured out on our own with Tony Soter, helped Elias with me.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
But you know, we started, you know, getting past 23 and the wines were just better. They're just richer-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
... and dark, darker fruit and, and you know, the, the consu- consumers, marketplace recognized it and, and said, "Yeah, keep it up. We love it."
John Kongsgaard:
Yep. Yep.
Doug Shafer:
So off we went.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
So good news. So you're up at Newton. Um...
John Kongsgaard:
Yep.
Doug Shafer:
Let's see. And I think in the mid-nineties you and, you started doing your own thing with Maggie, right? With Stone Crest Chardonnay, is that-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. So-
Doug Shafer:
Was that the start of Kongsgaard kind of? Is that how that worked?
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Yeah. So in, I was finally, um, ran out of patience working with, uh, Mrs. Newton, who is a, um, controversial character. We'll just leave it at that. I mean, she's still my friend.
Doug Shafer:
Sure.
John Kongsgaard:
But we had a hard time working together.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
John Kongsgaard:
We, so, uh, at that point we, that is, so this is now, uh, 2000, no, this is, let's see. ‘96. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. '96.
Doug Shafer:
Got it.
John Kongsgaard:
So we, so I left Newton, uh, Peter was, this is in the days before the winemaker could have his little side brand.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
That was just absolutely not happening. And I didn't even bring it up with Peter Newton. Like, "Here's what I wanna do. I wanna start my own winery. Can I use a little corner of the cave or this is-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
... that was out of, out of the question. So I resigned, and, uh, we have to give Maggie the full credit for this because I have, uh, still almost no, but I had then absolutely no business sense. No entrepreneurial zeal. I was perfectly happy to move to another job and run somebody else's winery. Maggie said, "No, no, like we can figure this out." So with her courage, uh, and with no money, uh, we started Kongsgaard in, uh, '96.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
And the, the way we managed it was, I got a job at Luna, uh, in Napa, which was just forming and they needed a, they needed a known name winemaker. Somebody who could help them finish the building. I knew about construction.
Uh, and part of my deal was that I would be able to make my wine under their roof just as part of my compensation. So that's, that's how we were going.
Doug Shafer:
That's, you know, I never knew, 'cause I remember you went to Luna. It was like, I was...
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
It was a head scratcher. Why is he doing that?
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Okay. That's the reason.
John Kongsgaard:
Well it was, it was perfect. 'Cause there was no competition. Luna was Mike Moon and George Vare.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
And they wanted to make Italian, uh, Cal-Ital.
Doug Shafer:
That's right.
John Kongsgaard:
So I had to learn how to make Pinot Grigio and Sangiovese which was a lot of fun and a lot more trips to Europe, uh-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
... different parts of Europe. Um, so I was not really competing them, with them by making Chardonnay. And at the same time we started the brand Arietta which was sort of the Cabernet leg of my endeavor with our partner, Fritz Hatton. So Arietta and Kongsgaard were born under the roof of Luna, uh, where we didn't have to pay rent. Um, and I stayed there for five years. Um, I also had started a consultancy at that time because I needed the Luna paycheck plus a little more money to keep the ship afloat while we rent-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
... for the first bottles to come out the other end of the winery. So, yeah, so I was at Luna for five years and it was, that was a great job. It was so fun to make, I mean, Parker said, this is the greatest Pinot Gri in the new world. Like that was pretty easy (laughs) to say 'cause there were only like three of us but...
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
... anyway, it was fun. It was a great job.
Doug Shafer:
Well it sounds like it. Cause you're-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
... you got, you know, you're starting your own thing. You're starting with some, with Fritz Hatton, Arietta and you're you're playing, playing with Sangiovese and Pinot Grigio, Pinot Gri.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
I mean-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
... that would be fun.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
What a gas.
John Kongsgaard:
A good time. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Okay. That's good to know. Well, I drive by that building all the time. So now I'll-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
... I'll have a different attitude when I go by there. That's, that's good.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
And then, now, jumping, jumping, uh, subjects here, but talk to me because chamber music and the classical music is so much a part of your life. Is that something that was going on the whole time or did it, did it get put on-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
... hold when you had kids or this job or that job? How's that work?
John Kongsgaard:
So there was a, there's a wonderful guy, uh, who was a lawyer at, in Napa called Dick Lemon. Uh, he was at DPNF for a long time. And so Dick, uh, founded chamber music. He was the, he was the kind of acquisitions lawyer, um, helping people buy and sell wineries. And he helped Clo du Val get off the ground.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
Speaking of the Stags Leap neighborhood. And so the French owners said we'd like to do something for the community. Um, what would you advise us to do Dick Lemon, our lawyer? And he said, "Well, I've always wanted to start a chamber music concert series in Napa." And they said, that's great. That's kind of Europe. That, we'd love to get behind that. So Clo du Val was the original sponsor, and it started in 1980. And Maggie and I moved back over here to take the Newton job in '83, I started going to the concerts. We, we started going to the concerts and, uh, Dick was all very inspired but didn't actually know that much about the music he was trying to put on. And so I, over the few years went from just sort of writing the program notes to actually taking over the artistic administration.
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
John Kongsgaard:
So by, by say '85 I was completely in charge of the, everything except the sales and you know, the admin. So yeah, it was great. It was great opportunity for me because not, it's one thing to love music and it's another level of thrill to put on concerts. And now the thing is in its chamber music in Napa valley is just started its 41st year. And-
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
John Kongsgaard:
... we, we bring the very, very best people in the world. Um, solo pianists and cellists and string quartets and opera singers. And that's just become the absolute center of my life. I mean, I make wine to, uh, for equal, equal pleasure in my life is running the winery, but the music thing is really an extra special part of it. And at this point it's 10 concerts a year and whoever they are, if it's a string quartet from Prague or a pianist from Moscow, uh, they come and stay with us up on the mountain and we have a nice piano in our music room. And so, uh, that's really become a big, big part of my life.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, that's great. That's wonderful.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. And fun.
Doug Shafer:
And, and, uh, do you still, I, I heard that you play classical music in your barrel rooms and caves to your wines.
John Kongsgaard:
Absolutely.
Doug Shafer:
There you go.
John Kongsgaard:
Absolutely. Yeah. Somebody asked me does the, does the music influence the wine? And I say it influences the winemaker and the winemaker makes the wine.
Doug Shafer:
There you go.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
I love it. Yeah. I'm good. So, all right. So you're cranking along the Luna days. And then at some point you move on from Luna 'cause, yeah, 'cause you guys, 'cause you built your, your current winery Konsgaard up on the hill, up on Atlas peak, is that correct?
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Yeah. So the history, so I was at Luna for five years and it was kind of my deal when I signed up for that job that I told my, my colleagues, Mike Moon especially, um, that if Kongsgaard flies I'll be gone in five years.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
And I'll commit to you for five years and then if Kongsgaard fails I'll stay here. And anyway, fortunately for us, things went very well. And so after five years we, uh, Arietta and Kongsgaard, left Luna and we leased a winery in St. Helena. We just got an empty winery and, um, so we, we were at, that was the Boswell which burned down recently.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
We, so we were at Boswell for, uh, for five more years. So that got us to, to, well, whatever year that was, um...
Doug Shafer:
Probably mid 2000s I think, something like that.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Mid 2000s. So we, we, we, um, five years at Luna, five years at Boswell. And then, um, we thought at that point, you know, maybe we're, maybe somebody will loan us some money. Um...
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
(laughs) And so we thought, okay, now's the time to make the move. And we found, searched the valley for, in the hills for a property where we could dig a cave, build a house, and have a vineyard.
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
John Kongsgaard:
So that ended up the, in this amazing property on the top of Atlas peak we were looking out at the bay on one side and you can see from the winery, you can see the Golden Gate Bridge and the Sierras.
Doug Shafer:
Oh.
John Kongsgaard:
It's just an, it's just (laughs) an amazing mountain top here.
Doug Shafer:
Geez.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Fantastic.
John Kongsgaard:
I had made, I had made some Cabernet, uh, in the, in the Luna days. I had made some Cabernet from the adjoining property. So we knew the grapes would be good from up here.
Doug Shafer:
Great. So you guys, so that was-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah, ‘90, ‘90, uh, 2004.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
2004 we, we bought this 150 acres up on Atlas Peak of just virgin land. There's nothing here. Um, and we, we dug a cave which was completed by the, in time for the ‘90 or the 2006 vintage. And then we started planting. We now have 14 acres of grapes up here and a lovely house to live in. So it's kind of all on the same property now finally.
Doug Shafer:
Nice. I got it. Um, I've got a confession to make. Um, I've never spent much time up on Atlas Peak.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Maybe, you know, I went up to Glen's, Glen, Antinori's place-
John Kongsgaard:
Glen Salva.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. Glen's place for a Sangiovese thing 20 years ago. And then-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
... you know, this was a, this past harvest was, you know, small crop, big, small crop. You know, we saw it in June.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Elias does his thing. He goes, we're short. I say goodbye. I don't see him for two weeks. And he goes everywhere looking, looking for grapes. And-
John Kongsgaard:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Doug Shafer:
... you know, because we gotta, gotta get more fruit. And he ended up in Atlas Peak, someone's told him about something and we actually, God, we bought grapes from two or three people up there. So then he, you know, it's getting close to harvest. So he drags me up one day he says, "You need to go see this pla- I gotta show you where these vineyards are." (laughs) 'Cause you gotta-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
'Cause I'm, I'm his, I'm his big sample guy. So, you know, go sample here.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
John. Absolu - I've really never been up there too much. My God, you know, you look across to Pritchard Hill, I think that's where you can see that.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
It's absolutely stunning. So-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
I was blown away. It's just beautiful.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
And um...
John Kongsgaard:
It's a dead e- it's a dead end road. And so, you know, if you could drive through and come out on Pritchard Hill, which you can on a Jeep road. Uh, people would know about it, but it's, it's really a kind of one of the sacred backwaters and you get way up here and it feels like you're in cattle country in the 1920s.
Doug Shafer:
Exactly.
John Kongsgaard:
That's great.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. It's like that Montana thing. It's gorgeous.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
So, um, so I, I am gonna come see you. I don't care. I'll let you know.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
I'll call, I'll call first, but I'm gonna come see you.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Great.
Doug Shafer:
And then, uh, you've had, you've got something fun going on Alex, your son joined you at some point. Tell me about that.
Yes. Yeah. Okay. Great. My, my son Alex who's, uh, I'm 70 and he's 38. And so, uh, he, he just grew up with me in the Jeep, changing the irrigation-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
... at Newton and so on. So he, he's a farm boy and he, a kind of a green thumb and loves to make things and build things. And so he was kind of a natural to be helping. Uh, and he does a lot of things. He's a boat builder and a surfer and a, he, he has a lot of interests.
Uh, but he started helping us about 15 years ago. Kind of be around for harvest and show up for bottling and otherwise he's working in a boatyard or all kind of different things. And then, uh, we had the bad fortune of, of Maggie getting, uh, quite ill about 12 years ago. And he did the right thing as one wou- as you hope your kid would and said, "You can take care of mom and I, but I can take care of the wine."
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
John Kongsgaard:
So that, that was 2011.
Doug Shafer:
Hmm.
John Kongsgaard:
Like the most challenging vintage year-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) Yeah. That was, that was a memorable one.
John Kongsgaard:
... of our lives.
Doug Shafer:
Gotcha. No kidding.
John Kongsgaard:
Good luck buddy. Yeah. And he made, he made magnificent wine then. And so on and off over the next 10 years, I was more or less, uh, helping him depending on how it was going with the other, the Maggie project.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
John Kongsgaard:
Uh, so he really became, he really took over the production and he runs The Judge vineyard. He actually owns The Judge vineyard now, he's just inherited that from me ahead of my, ahead of me going to the grave. Um, so we're total partners now and-
Doug Shafer: Great.
John Kongsgaard:
... I'm back working with him. And so it's a terrific setup. It's just-
Doug Shafer:
How fun.
John Kongsgaard:
It's what, it's what people dream of-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
... and it's happening to me. Yeah. It's great.
Doug Shafer:
Good for you. So tell me, what are you guys making? What, what flavors with Kongsgaard?
John Kongsgaard:
So we have the, let's say in a typical year for a round number we make 3,500 cases. Out of that 2,000 and something is the so-called Napa valley Chardonnay. And that's from grapes purchased on long term acreage contracts from primarily from Lee Hudson and Larry Hyde in Carneros.
Doug Shafer:
Two great ones. Great growers.
John Kongsgaard:
Two great ones. Yeah. The two best-
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
John Kongsgaard:
... custom growers in, in Carneros. And my old friends Lee and I go back to Davis days together.
Doug Shafer:
Right. Right.
John Kongsgaard:
And I, I bought from Larry Hyde all the way and Lee all the way through the Newton time. So we're old, old colleagues. Um, so that's the Napa Chardonnay. And then the other Chardonnay's called The Judge. I talked about that at the-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
... top of our discussion. That's from our little, uh, our little family property, uh, east of Napa, also in the hills, very, very low production. Kind of a super austere one ton to the acre site. So that, that's The Judge. That would be three or 400 cases only.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
'Cause that's all we can get off of those five acres. Um, and then we make, uh, a few hundred cases of Syrah from Hudson. And maybe 500 cases of Cabernet from up here, grown on the ranch and uh, uh, on Atlas Peak and then from our, our kitty corner neighbor.
Doug Shafer:
Got it.
John Kongsgaard:
So that's the run. And then we make a, we make a almost non-commercial amount of Albarino and Viognier. Just for our pleasure. I mean, we sell them to the mailing list, but that's tiny production, couple barrels.
Doug Shafer:
Hey, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta ask you something. Uh, Lee's Syrah down Carneros.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Um, 'cause we, we, we grow some Syrah up, you know, around, uh, Oaknoll, up just south of Stags Leap.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
It's beautiful. It's great. It's Relentless. It's all that.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Um, but we started buying some, uh, Syrah from Tony Truchard, which is kind of Carneros.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
And I don't know man, John, I, it seems to me, correct me if I'm wrong, but I finally got pepper. I got pepper out of-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Tony's stuff.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
So the, is that what you're getting out of Lees? You get more pepper and spice?
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah, I think it's, I think it's because Truchard and Hudson are, are similar in that they are they're in Carneros and so it's therefore it's much colder-
Doug Shafer:
Colder.
John Kongsgaard:
... than it is than Oaknoll or where-
Doug Shafer:
Right, Stags Leap.
John Kongsgaard:
... you guys are. Right. Yeah. Um, so I think you can have that attractive, uh, Rhone-ish aroma, if you grow it in a cold place, but mostly where it's cold down in Carneros the soil's not so interesting for Syrah.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah, that's true.
John Kongsgaard:
And so at Truchard and at Hudson you have these little volcanic areas where it's not the normal Carneros clay or shale.
Doug Shafer:
Good point.
John Kongsgaard:
So that's to me, that's to me is the magic. If you can-
Doug Shafer:
That's a good point. Yeah. Because we're, we're toying with the idea of planting some Syrah on Red Shoulder. We got, you know, a couple blocks of-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
And, um, but we're, we'll probably play with it. We know, you know, to, to get it ripe we might have to drop crop, you know, to, and really go light. But I really want that pepper, I'm just dying for it. So-
John Kongsgaard:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
All right.
John Kongsgaard:
That, that, that's the formula. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Well, thanks for the free advice. Send me a bill. (laughs)
John Kongsgaard:
Sure. Yep.
Doug Shafer:
And best place. If people wanna find your wines, how do they do it? They gotta drive up the road. How can they do it electronically?
John Kongsgaard:
No, we, we don't... We're, yeah. Electronically. We're, we are, we made a point when we got our permit, uh, that we are absolutely not allowed to have the public come here.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
So this is truly private winery. Um, we got through all the first years, um, all the wine going away without ever having to receive anybody when I was working at Luna would have been inappropriate to have Kongsgaard customers there.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
So anyway, we managed without ever, uh, having to do a tasting, um, or see anybody. I think we're unique in the wine business is that we really hardly know our customers. Um ... Anyway, that's means we can be farmers and not PR guys. Um, so the way to get the wine is to, um, join our mailing list on- online.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
So you just look at, you look at Kongsgaardwine.com. I mean just Kongsgaard. It'll come up. And we have, uh, there are a lot of wineries in Napa that are very exclusive, and I like to think of ourselves as inclusive. So whoever signs up for our mailing list can buy something at least in the, in the next year.
Doug Shafer:
Oh great.
John Kongsgaard:
And we it's a, it's an annual offering. It's not some made up endless, um, fake waiting list like a lot of our funny colleagues. It's like ... We want you to buy our wine.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
John Kongsgaard:
So, anyway, you might have to wait a couple of years before you can get your four bottles of The Judge and that sort of thing. Those, the, that's quite allocated. But anyway, that's, that's how it works. And so we're, we, we sell, you know, most of the wine to the annual offering to our so-called mailing list. It's an email thing now. Uh, and then the rest goes all over the world, um, to restaurants.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
John Kongsgaard:
So you can find us in the best places on all continents. Here, here and there.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. Good to know. All right my friend, I've taken enough of your time, but thanks for taking the time with us today. That was great. Great to talk to you. Great to hear these stories.
John Kongsgaard:
It was a pleasure.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
John Kongsgaard:
Let's get together for a drink one of these days.
Doug Shafer:
You bet man. All right.
John Kongsgaard:
Great. Okay.
Doug Shafer:
Best to you John. Thanks again.
John Kongsgaard:
Righto.
Doug Shafer:
See you.
John Kongsgaard:
Thank you.
Doug Shafer:
You bet.
John Kongsgaard:
Bye-bye.
Doug Shafer:
Bye.