Full Transcript
Doug Shafer:
00:00:00
Hey everybody, welcome back. It's Doug Shafer for another episode of The Taste. Uh, today wel- welcoming a fellow Napa Valley vintner with a very similar story to mine. Uh, he worked with his parents who founded a family winery and he took over the reins. Um, the CEO and president of the famous Schrams- Schramsberg Winery, Hugh Davies. Welcome, Hugh.
Hugh Davies:
00:00:23
Doug, great to be with you today, um, and, uh, here in Napa Valley on a, on a, you know, kind of a pleasant July day.
Doug Shafer:
00:00:30
It's beautiful out there, and I was thinking about you last night, um, trying to think about first time we met. And I think, correct me if I'm wrong, I think the first time we met was probably playing city league basketball at that high school on a Sunday night, th- way back when. Is that, is that probably-
Hugh Davies:
00:00:47
Didn't you, you had like the contraption on your knee-
Doug Shafer:
00:00:49
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:00:49
... That, well, you know, if you ran into the guy, you might actually bang your own knee, 'cause it had, you know, some knobby parts on it or something?
Doug Shafer:
00:00:57
Yeah, that, uh, that was, you know, I, I pretended I had knee injuries, but I just wore that on purpose 'cause guys like you were a lot-
Hugh Davies:
00:01:00
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
00:01:01
(laughs) You were a lot faster than me, so when drove by me-
Hugh Davies:
00:01:03
Well you can, you can, you can-
Doug Shafer:
00:01:03
... I just kinda give you a little knock.
Hugh Davies:
00:01:04
You'd just give him a little knee and it might actually slow the guy down.
Doug Shafer:
00:01:07
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:01:09
Like, "Hey, I don't wanna hit that thing again."
Doug Shafer:
00:01:10
I remember that, I, uh ...
Hugh Davies:
00:01:11
Um ...
Doug Shafer:
00:01:12
That actually is funny you brought that up. I remember I had a, at first I had knee problems in high school basketball and I had these old, horrible braces back then. And they were, yeah, there was metal sticking out, and I remember the ref stopped the game one time, he said, "You can't wear that. You're gonna, you know, make people bleed." So the had to tape it all up, all, all the metal. There's a-
Hugh Davies:
00:01:30
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
00:01:30
... A side n- there's a side note I haven't thought about in about 40 years. Anyway, um, glad you are back on the podcast. Uh, you, Schramsberg, incredible story that goes back over 150 years. I think one of the oldest wineries in the valley, you know, and your family has built that legacy into something that's really amazing. Uh, a lot to cover. There's you, your folks, and all those stories, but I think we have to go back to the 1860s, back when some guy named Jacob Schram, who lived in St Helena, got the idea to plant some vines and, um, go from there. So, give us some of that history.
Hugh Davies:
00:02:06
Um, the, the Davies part of the story began in 1965, but as, as you indicate, the, the Schramsberg story goes back to 1862. Uh, one of the first wineries in Napa. Uh, Jacob and Ana Schram, uh-
Doug Shafer:
00:02:32
Oh.
Hugh Davies:
00:02:33
... Founded Schramsberg in 1862. Said to be the second bonded winery in Napa Valley. Uh, we know that Schram, uh, or Schram, we've, I, I grew up saying Schram, but he-
Doug Shafer:
00:02:45
Mm-hmm.
Hugh Davies:
00:02:46
... Ah, would've worked with, um, Charles Krug, ah, at Charles Krug, which started the year before. And, as m- our understanding is that the two of them actually worked with Agoston Haraszthy, who's the Hungarian, uh, winemaker over Buena Vista in Sonoma, said to be the first bonded winery, 1857. And so a couple of German immigrants, you know, connected with a Hungarian. They, they started m- making a little bit of wine in Sonoma that, that, that moved to, to Napa. Uh, and then, in Schram's case, up here onto what we think of today as the d- into the Diamond Mountain district of Napa between St Helena and Calistoga, up in the hills, uh, on the west side of the valley. Um, we know that at a peak, Schram was producing, you know, what we would think of today in terms of nine liters cases, but maybe 10,000 nine liter cases, 100,000 bottles, that type of thing.
00:03:55
Um, it would've all been, we believe, made from fruit grown here on the e- on the estate, if you will. The, uh, the family had a good run and, uh, unfortunately it did come to an end for them and for the second generation of that family. In the, the teens, Prohibition was, was looming and then there was this root louse, phylloxera, that kinda ended the party in that, that earlier era, which, which must've been pretty, uh, pretty devastating for, for people in, in Napa, Sonoma.
Doug Shafer:
00:04:50
Yeah, 'cause it, it, it, uh, it definitely put a damper on the whole industry, without a doubt. And, uh, I remember b- being up there years ago, and, you know you guys have s- you guys have those great caves, and those date right back that, those date, date back to the original owners, right, the Schram family?
Hugh Davies:
00:05:06
Yeah, so the caves here, they are, they are definitely a unique feature of this property and, and I, you know, as far as caves go, you know, th- there are, there are definitely caves around, you know, wine country here in the north Bay, but these are, are some of the more interesting caves. The, the first, uh, we believe, 12,000 square feet of underground caves were, were dug with picks and shovels back in the 1800s.
Doug Shafer:
00:05:32
Wow.
Hugh Davies:
00:05:32
Which is amazing, uh, that they did that work. The soil here is not soft. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
00:05:38
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:05:38
It is hard, volcanic, uh, ash and, um, you know, honestly, the look and feel of the caves hasn't even changed that much over the subsequent 100, 150 years. Uh, you still see the marks of the picks and the, you know, the, the axes that would've been used to, you know, peck away at the, at the walls.
Doug Shafer:
00:06:01
Wow.
Hugh Davies:
00:06:02
And it's, you know, just like one little chink at a time, ah, they would've, of gotten it done. Um, so we've added on to those caves. If you were to visit Schramsberg today, y- you'd see more. But, uh, it is, it is pretty unique that, that aspect of it. I remember as a kid, just the, the three, the three caves, you know, there with two portals, and then there was one side cave off to the side.
Doug Shafer:
00:06:25
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:06:25
Um, and they were mostly empty. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
00:06:28
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:06:29
They're not empty anymore, right. Uh, and we've had to, we had to dig more caves to put more bottles. But, uh, once upon a time, you know, there was plenty of room for the, uh, the bikes and the skateboards.
Doug Shafer:
00:06:40
Yeah, I was gonna say, I bet you guys were running around, riding bikes and skateboards. Yeah. That makes sense. Perfect.
Hugh Davies:
00:06:45
There's still a little bit of that, but it's harder. There, there's, uh, yeah, there's just a little more activity, probably, than there once was, um ... as we've gradually grown and as the world has gotten bigger too, right.
Doug Shafer:
00:06:59
Right, right. And back in that day, they had a celebrity guest. A, a famous author, Robert Louis Stevenson, and so you guys, you got some Schramsberg got some, or Sch- the Schram gang got some early, early PR in his book.
Hugh Davies:
00:07:15
So that's im- that is impressive. Um, you know, for the, the RLS fans, but honestly, you know, y- you think all these years later, that woulda helped them, uh, build their brand. You know, to, to, uh ... You know, it's well and good to make a fine wine, but (laughs) selling it, as you well know-
Doug Shafer:
00:07:33
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:07:34
... That's not necessarily, ah, easier than, ah, than making it. And so, at that time, it must've been really difficult, like no visitors would come, uh, there, you know. The, the, the market for these fine California wines, um, well it didn't exist in, until people started to make it, and, and then, uh, would've, uh, had to work pretty hard to, to get some attention around, around the country, around the world. Ah, but when then a very famous author, Robert Louis Stevenson, writes the Silverado Squatters, uh, ultimately he became such a popular writer, that that would've helped. I think it helped more like 10 years later, 'cause it was actually 1880 that, uh, he wrote Silverado Squatters and, and spent his time here in, in Calistoga and Napa and l- with, that whole with the Schrams. And then, uh, Treasure Island and Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, those books came a little later, more like I think '83, 4, 5, something like that, 1883, '84, '85.
Doug Shafer:
00:08:41
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:08:41
And then, I think it was around 1890 ish-
Doug Shafer:
00:08:46
Mm-hmm.
Hugh Davies:
00:08:46
... That Stevenson actually dies, and so, um, in those 1890s is my understanding, is when, when that, that, that business kinda, for, for those that were doing it, you know, the Beringers, the Krugs, the, the Schrams, et cetera, uh, it went pretty well.
Doug Shafer:
00:09:02
Well, yeah, that was, I've had some other folks on talking about that time period. Um, it's true, the late 18, yeah, 1890s, that's when kinda, it was, uh, it was a pretty good w- wine boom here. And this is, you know, prior-
Hugh Davies:
00:09:09
Pretty good wine boom.
Doug Shafer:
00:09:13
Yeah, prior to Prohibition, it was really going.
Hugh Davies:
00:10:17
But thankfully, we, we're, we're still here, we're still making wine and, and, uh, uh, it doesn't feel like we've missed too many beats.
Doug Shafer:
00:10:24
No, you haven't. And, uh, since people are probably not gonna run out and read that book, The Silverado Squatters by Stevenson, but he does, he does have a great description of, uh, Napa, Napa's wines in that book, and it's just two words, and it's called, "Bottled poetry." And, I mean-
Hugh Davies:
00:10:48
"And, and the wine was bottled poetry."
Doug Shafer:
00:10:50
Yeah. "The wine was bottled poetry."
Hugh Davies:
00:10:51
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
00:10:51
I mean, that was what he wrote back in the 1800s and one could argue, you know, you could use that as a tagline for your own business today. I mean, it speaks volumes. It's pretty cool.
Hugh Davies:
00:11:14
Uh, it is approximately 100 pages, so it's a pretty quick read. It's interesting to, to get a, a feel for what life might've been like at this stage, what, 140 years ago-
Doug Shafer:
00:12:38
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:12:38
... Here in, uh, here in our backyard.
Doug Shafer:
00:12:40
No, that's a good tip and it's such a quick read. People should, if you're really into Napa Valley history, sh- guys should check that out. It's, um, you're right, we can have it delivered by drone. And, um-
Hugh Davies:
00:12:49
There you go.
Doug Shafer:
00:13:53
So, it's rolling, Prohibition hits, winery shuts down, and then we jumped forward in time to your mom and dad, Jack and Jamie Davies. Where did they come from? What's their story? How the heck did they get to Napa Valley?
Hugh Davies:
00:14:17
Yeah, so, um, and I, if I remember correctly, didn't your dad, was he raised in the Midwest?
Doug Shafer:
00:14:24
Yeah, Chicago.
Hugh Davies:
00:14:25
Chicago. So my dad was born in Cincinnati, but really was only in Cincinnati for two years, the f- the, so before he was aware of anything, his, his parents had moved to, uh, Chicago. And so my dad was in Chicago up until about '37, uh, 1937, I'll say. Uh, he was born in '23, and so, you know, kind of, you know, early high school, mid high school, his age, his family, like some other families in the Midwest, uh, pick up and drive to California-
Doug Shafer:
00:15:00
Wow.
Hugh Davies:
00:15:00
... Uh, drive to southern California. Uh, it's crazy to think you could go to, uh, at, at this point, Beverly Hills, California (laughs) and-
Doug Shafer:
00:15:09
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:15:09
... You could like buy a house, you know.
Doug Shafer:
00:15:11
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:15:11
It was, it seemed like a, you know, better opportunity than, uh, what they might've had in, in, uh, in Chicago. And, and, you know, we, we could just pick up stakes and move out there and, and start over and a- and afford to be able to do that. Granted, different time.
Doug Shafer:
00:15:25
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:15:26
Um, so, so he would grow up in, uh, what was Beverly Hills then, a little different than would be the Beverly Hills today.
Doug Shafer:
00:15:34
Mm-hmm.
Hugh Davies:
00:15:35
Uh, and then was a World War II vet. Uh, then, through the GI Bill, went to Stanford. It's crazy, my dad went to Stanford and had a Harvard MBA. Um, I'm sure there are few, few people out there with those stripes, but, uh, yeah, w- well educated guy.
Doug Shafer:
00:15:50
Mm-hmm.
Hugh Davies:
00:15:50
And then ended up in San Francisco. He was working for, um, a business consulting firm, uh, McKinsey, which is pretty well known and regarded, still existing, you know, with, with kind of international, uh, offices, but including San Francisco as a base. And so that's what he was up to. Um, my mom, meanwhile, was born and raised in Pasadena. So, as a kid, both, both sets of my grandparents, you know, down in southern California. And so my mom, she goes to UC Berkeley, uh, and then in, uh, in late 50s, '59, at this point, she is, um, up and running with a gallery she and a friend s- out of, out of Berkeley, started selling paintings of, uh, you know, young, uh, you know, California painters. So she's on Broadway with her gallery, kind of more, you know, towards the, you know, North Beach. Uh, you know, a little bit in the late 50s beatnik era, and my dad, meanwhile, is on Montgomery Street, um, you know, as the business consultant. And their paths crossed, they married six months after they met, they just hit it off.
00:17:14
And then in their young married life, started a family and, and came up with this idea that, that, uh, they wanted to do their own business. And th- that they friends that were s- dabbling a little bit with wine, a little bit with restaurant activity, uh, that, that piqued their interest. They invested in a, a winery called Martin Ray Vineyards.
00:17:39
Uh, and then, a couple years into that, by '65, they had, uh, they had crafted their own, you know, their own plan, and that was to make a sparkling wine, traditional method. You gonna use Chardonnay, we're gonna Pinot Noir, we're gonna do it like they do in the Champagne district of France. Um, they had scoped out, you know, places in Napa, Sonoma, et cetera. And, and there were numbers, you know, these older winery properties, that, that it were just kinda hanging around, that hadn't been active for a good long time.
Doug Shafer:
00:18:16
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:18:17
You know, 50, 50 years had passed between the Schram period and then, we'll say, the Davies period. But anyhow, they were led to this property, Schramsberg, by a realtor, uh, Ned Smith, uh, the caves, "Hey I got a place for you."
Doug Shafer:
00:18:31
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:18:31
We, there's a place up, uh, towards Calistoga, it's got these old caves and, and-
Doug Shafer:
00:18:36
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:18:36
... That'd be great. Like 'cause you wanna do the bottle fermented sparkling wine, you could stick the bot- ... It's like in Champagne, right, but here in, in California.
Doug Shafer:
00:18:43
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:18:43
And they saw this place and, and that, that was it. You know, the h- the hook was set. Uh, and here we are, 57 years later, still, still going.
Doug Shafer:
00:18:53
I gotta ask you, any idea, I'm sure you've p- probably shared a few at some point, why he went sparkling. Because, you know, at that time, you know, table wine was just starting to kinda get going, you know, in the 60s and 70s, again. And so, you know, even taking it further out there with sparkling wine to your typical, you know, American consumer, who was probably not really even sure what wine is. Sparkling, did he have a, a, a wild idea? Was it to be different, um, was there just a love of Champagne from France? Any idea?
Hugh Davies:
00:19:30
Yeah, no, the, uh, great question. And, and, and, you know, the answer is, uh, is, is a bit multifaceted, but, first and foremost, they liked sparkling wine. I think, they, they, they enjoyed the, you know, kinda the fine Champagne that they had had a chance to taste and be exposed to. Again, living in San Francisco, you know, a little, little bit of exposure, at least in their circles, to the, you know, the fine wine and cuisine, and so they, they, they were bitten by the bug. So they, they liked the style, but they also liked the idea of doing something that nobody else was yet doing, uh ...
Doug Shafer:
00:20:04
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:20:04
You know, I can hear my dad talking about n- the niche. You know, and again, he was, he was a marketing consultant, and, and so in his mind, you know, if, if they could carve out a unique niche, um, you know, th- they could live in that niche. Like, future generations could live in that niche. You know, if we were the first to do something that, that, that might ultimately resonate. But to your point th- while there wasn't much of a market for, for wine in general. Uh, y- most American households just, just didn't, didn't do wine, right? It, it wasn't-
Doug Shafer:
00:20:36
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:20:36
... It wasn't something that, that happened. My parents, uh, didn't come from families where people drank wine around the dinner table. That, that didn't happen. Um, but they, they got the bug, and then they, they thought, "Well, we could, we could go for it. We could be the first people to really do the, the bottle fermented sparkling wine." And then once they saw this place and, you know, I j- I just think the pieces just really came together around that idea for them. They were encouraged by people they met. Folks like Andre Tchelistcheff would've been a- a- around. Uh, he was a, you know, kind of an early, uh, c- consultant, if you will, a little bit, on the project. His son, Dimitri, uh, you know, worked really more formally with my parents for, for a number of years in the early going. Um, the, the Mondavi brothers, you know, initially at Charles Krug, later Robert would, would move on. But that was another, uh, you know, c- connection that they made, uh, early as, as they were, you know, you know, kinda planting the seeds to get this thing going. The folks at UC Davis, my parents give them a lot of credit for helping them figure out how to, um, h- how to, how to do it. How do you make this stuff (laughs) right?
Doug Shafer:
00:21:46
Right, right, right.
Hugh Davies:
00:21:47
What, uh, what's this? Well we gotta get the yeast going and then-
Doug Shafer:
00:21:50
Yeah. (laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:21:50
... We gotta, we gotta put some sugar in the wine once we've made it, and then it's gotta go to a bottle and how do we m- how do we get it so that it actually finishes-
Doug Shafer:
00:21:57
Right. (laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:21:57
... The fermentation? And how do we get every bottle to taste, you know, pretty much the same, too. That's a, you know, that, we need to be consistent, right?
Doug Shafer:
00:22:06
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:22:06
Um, we've gotten better at this. I will say that-
Doug Shafer:
00:22:09
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:22:09
... Over 57 years. But, yeah, it would've, it would've, uh, it would've been kind of crazy, uh, to, to do.
Doug Shafer:
00:22:17
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:22:18
Uh, I really, I mean, I've got a ton of respect for, for not just what my parents would have, have done, but, you know, that, that ear- you know, the earlier era of winemaker because they, they were, um, they were starting from scratch, right.
Doug Shafer:
00:22:33
Right, right.
Hugh Davies:
00:22:33
They (laughs) really, they were starting from scratch.
Doug Shafer:
00:22:36
No, the learning curve was big. I mean, uh, I was here pretty early on with dad and, you know, he was getting good help from neighbors and stuff, but, man, you know, even the folks who were like the pros were still kinda green, um, 'cause it's just kinda-
Hugh Davies:
00:22:50
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
00:22:50
... How do, how do you do it? I mean, you know, I remember, ar- you know, not just me, some of my peers in s- in the early 80s, you know, we're just trying to make decent wine that it wasn't gonna blow up in the bottle. You know, and that's not even thought these days. I mean, we've g- ... Not that we have it down-
Hugh Davies:
00:23:05
No.
Doug Shafer:
00:23:05
... But, you know, we have it down compared to 30, 40 years ago. So, you know, back then it was-
Hugh Davies:
00:23:09
Absolutely.
Doug Shafer:
00:23:10
... Even the same thing. But, you know, I, I didn’t your dad well, but I, I r- I ran into him a few times, um, but he was (laughs) one sharp guy, and your mom too. Delightful. But, um, I figured he was doing that whole, uh, let's grab a niche and, and make it ours with, uh, doing the sparkling wine. So, kudos. Kudos, kudos.
00:23:31
So, they come up here, they've got two, t- you got two brothers. You were born. When were you born?
Hugh Davies:
00:23:39
I was born in '65, September of '65.
Doug Shafer:
00:23:42
Okay.
Hugh Davies:
00:23:42
Uh, so they, I was born after that first harvest, um, and they would've been up here ... Frankly, my mom was pregnant when they moved, with me, when they moved in to the house and, you know, formally started the, the, the effort. Um, and-
Doug Shafer:
00:23:57
So you're, so-
Hugh Davies:
00:23:58
... They brought in some part, but-
Doug Shafer:
00:23:59
I gotta interrupt you. So you're like, I think you're the only true Napa Valley person I've had on this show. You're the true Napa Valley native, man. We're all-
Hugh Davies:
00:24:09
Born.
Doug Shafer:
00:24:09
The rest of us are all outsiders.
Hugh Davies:
00:24:09
Born and raised.
Doug Shafer:
00:24:09
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:24:11
Born and raised. It is crazy, if you think about it, and I sometimes do, um, so mom and dad, you know, they l- they leave the hospital, uh, to take me home, and they, they bring me to the house where I still live. Crazy, right?
Doug Shafer:
00:24:49
Wow.
Hugh Davies:
00:24:50
Uh, so I'm, I'm now 56, living in the house that was, you know, really the first house that I ever knew.
Doug Shafer:
00:24:56
There you go.
Hugh Davies:
00:24:57
Um, I have moved away and done a few things. Not for, not for too long. (laughs) Yeah, but, yeah, life's good. I like it here.
Doug Shafer:
00:25:05
Now, it must've been crazy for you, for your folks. I mean, starting that out, you got three, three little kids. Um, how did they, did they ever talk much about, was it just crazy or they just did. And, uh, I'm assuming it wasn't a burden. It was more of a passion, is, is what I'm guessing.
Hugh Davies:
00:25:22
For them?
Doug Shafer:
00:25:22
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:25:22
Yeah, they, they, I, they loved every minute of it. I would say they probably didn't love every minute of raising the three boys.
Doug Shafer:
00:25:30
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:25:30
(laughs) So th- I'll actually qualify, uh, the statement, um, and I can hear them talking about the teenage years being particularly challenging, especially when all three of us were teenagers. By the time Bill's turned 20, I think it started to get a little better. Um, but, yeah, we're four years apart, four boys, so I think, you know, the year when I'm 15, my brother John 17, and my brother Bill's 19 ...
Doug Shafer:
00:25:59
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:26:00
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
00:26:00
That's trouble.
Hugh Davies:
00:26:00
That was-
Doug Shafer:
00:26:00
That's trouble right there.
Hugh Davies:
00:26:01
Yeah, that's trouble. That was probably trouble right there, yeah.
Doug Shafer:
00:26:03
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:26:03
I think what they really, really loved and, and maybe they, they, they thought it was gonna happen like this, I don't know, uh, but they, they loved the camaraderie, uh, that, honestly I, I believe still exi- ... Here you and I are sitting here talking about, you know, how our parents made wine, you know, uh, once upon a time, and, and that's what we still do. Um, it's, um, they, they loved being part of this community. Uh, they loved, uh, working with other members of the community and I, I'll extend it beyond that, but, you know, they, kinda the California, you know, wine community to, to build, uh, not only their individual brands, you know, their, their, their, you know, to cr- to build followings for their, their, their individual wine portfolios, but I feel like for, for that generation, maybe more that ours, or, or maybe we're still, we're still right there, I think for, uh, th- to, to some extent we're all still right there. We need, we need our wine's to come from a region that's, that means something, right?
Doug Shafer:
00:27:10
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:27:10
Uh, in order for, for, for all of us to, to really be successful in it. And, and I, there was a quote that my dad would always use, um, that was a Robert Mondavi quote. Uh, he was, uh, he was, he needed to get Chardonnay and, my dad did, to do the Blanc de Blanc. All right, so year one, 1965, we need Chardonnay, 'cause you can't make a Blanc de Blanc without Chardonnay.
Doug Shafer:
00:27:35
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:27:35
Um, that's the way they do it in Champagne, that's the way we're gonna do it. And th- they're, at the time, they're like 200 acres of Chardonnay in the whole state, that's it. Ah-
Doug Shafer:
00:27:43
Oh.
Hugh Davies:
00:27:43
... And so, and he wanted Chardonnay. He finds some, uh, uh, some Riesling, so that, that's, he's got a buddy who's got a, a, uh, a Spring Mountain vineyard with some Riesling on it. Riesling more planted than Chardonnay, as you well know, in 1965. And so, ah, but the suggestion was, you know, talk to the Mondavis down at Charles Krug, th- they might, they might hook you up. And, and again, my dad, uh, wouldn't need a, a lot. Uh, and so he's able to arrange a deal to trade the Riesling grapes for, uh, what would be a, a small tank of Chardonnay wine. We didn't have a tank up here either, or the cooling capacity, so they did it at Charles Krug. And so that first, the '65 Blanc de Blanc was actually made in a, a, this, uh, 500 gallon tank down at Charles Krug Winery. And, uh, my dad would like tell the story of how he arranged for that deal, the trade of the Riesling grapes for the Chardonnay wine, and Robert said, "Jack, you're, you're, you're crazier than I am, you know, to want to get into-"
Doug Shafer:
00:28:44
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:28:44
"... This sparkling wine business, but I tell you what. If you succeed, we'll all succeed."
Doug Shafer:
00:28:50
There you go, yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:28:52
And, and, and he meant it, right. He meant it. And, and, and I really feel, you know, that was, when I watched my parents, you know, as the five year old kid, the 10 year old kid, the 15, 20 year old kid, whatever, um, their best friends, they were all these guys and gals that they, they worked with here in, in Napa. Those are the people that they, uh, they wanted to spend their time with. That, those were the people that they really en- enjoyed and they, and they were all part of this team working to build, uh, an, an industry where, where there kinda had been one (laughs) right, before Prohibition. But it, but it needed some work, right, in, in the, in the 60s and 70s to, to, to get going. It always needs work, but that w- that w- that was cool.
Doug Shafer:
00:29:35
It was v- it's very cool. And that's, that's how it, you know, that's how we, I think, as a industry, local, locally California and Napa and Sonoma and other great areas, have gotten on the world stage, 'cause we all helped each other out. And, um, I was thinking about it as you were talking about your, your dad doing sparkling wine, kinda, you know, the old world way, the real way. And do you think he was aware that because, you know ... So he, you guys were the first but a lot of people followed. I mean, there are a lot of sparkling wine producers in California, and don't you th- you think, do you think he kinda started it?
Hugh Davies:
00:30:12
Well definitely, I mean, there, there, Hanns Kornell was here, Korbel was here, uh, before my parents would start, but not doing the Chardonnay and the-
Doug Shafer:
00:30:20
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:30:21
... Pinot Noir like the guys in Champagne. So there, there was a little bottle fermented sparkling wine, but like o- you know, it, it, the, the varietal wasn't, um, that important yet. Uh, while there was more Riesling grown than anything else in Napa, uh, there was more Chablis made, right. (laughs) So I don't, I know that doesn't make sense to everybody, but that, that was the world that we lived in, right.
Doug Shafer:
00:30:43
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:30:43
Chablis was white wine.
Doug Shafer:
00:30:44
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:30:44
That's it.
Doug Shafer:
00:30:44
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:30:45
And Burgundy was red wine, and, and it just so happened that we just, we had a lot of Riesling planted, and so that would go into the white wine.
Doug Shafer:
00:30:51
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:30:51
And then, um, yeah, th- th- there were, there were, th- there were people that were, were starting to, to go for, for more specificity. And ultimately, then it was like, no, it's not only Cabernet, but it's Cabernet from this one vineyard-
Doug Shafer:
00:31:10
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:31:10
... And that's worth bottling. Um, and, and, and, uh, you know, obviously vintage played a role. There was a time when vintage wasn't important. Uh, but for my parents with their sparkling wines, uh, from the outset, it was vintage dated sparkling wine. They didn't wanna just make sparkling wine, uh, a, a, a more generic Brut, right, they wanted to make a vintage dated sparkling wine. And so, uh, while not everybody jumped onto that bandwagon, it wasn't that far into the future from their, their launch, '65, uh, that they would get the knock on the door from the, the folks at, uh, uh, Moet Hennesey, right, or, I guess it w- probably was more formally at that moment, uh Moet et Chandon.
Doug Shafer:
00:31:53
Mm-hmm.
Hugh Davies:
00:31:53
And they, um, they were interested in, you know, kinda bailing my parents out (laughs) and buying the winery-
Doug Shafer:
00:31:59
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:32:00
... And, uh, let's go. Um, Nixon has gone to China, right, and there was the, the historic Toast to Peace in '72, and, and Schramsberg Blanc de Blanc had been served and there was, there was a moment and, and, um, so I j- I just remember my parents, I mean, b- it's an early memory for me, I wasn't even six at the time, but, th- you know, wow, these guys from like Moet, they, they're, they were, they were here, they wanted to buy the place. Well they should come, they should come here-
Doug Shafer:
00:32:26
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:32:27
... To Napa and they should make sparkling wine too, right.
Doug Shafer:
00:32:30
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:32:31
And they did. I mean, '73, boom, very next year. Chandon, uh-
Doug Shafer:
00:32:34
Chandon. Domaine Chandon.
Hugh Davies:
00:32:36
... Starts, and-
Doug Shafer:
00:32:37
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:32:37
Domaine Chandon starts. And then beyond that you have the, you know, other French would come, Roerderer, and Mumm, and, Tattinger, et cetera, uh, still here. So we have, uh, we have a, a pretty significant, uh, group of French Champagne producers making traditional method bottle fermented sparkling wine, you know, Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, et cetera, here in, uh, in California as well. And then there are others beyond that, that, that, uh, there are some, uh, French, or Spanish producers. Freixenet would come, starting Gloria Ferrer.
Hugh Davies:
00:33:07
It hasn't always been easy, I'll tell you. You know, it really hasn't. It, it does feel like the last, uh, 10 ish years have been the best, uh, more, more demand, more demand for, for what it is that I think collectively we're doing in the sparkling category. But I know that like none of this, any success that we might be having today, ah, you know, it, it wouldn't have been possible had not the, you know, and obviously in my case, my parents-
Doug Shafer:
00:33:55
They.
Hugh Davies:
00:33:55
... Uh, jumped into this saying-
Doug Shafer:
00:33:57
They, they did it.
Hugh Davies:
00:33:59
... Saying, "Yeah. We, we're-"
Doug Shafer:
00:34:00
They starting the ball rolling.
Hugh Davies:
00:34:00
"... Gonna make it."
Doug Shafer:
00:34:00
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:34:00
(laughs) We're gonna make it. We're gonna make it. Uh, the 90s were pretty tough. I think that was a, a moment when, and both my parents were alive at the time, you know, th- the, uh, a number of the French producers had come to California. Um, you know, we're, we're trying to push the, the, the price up and make it more premium and vintage date, and like l- let's, let's compete directly with French Champagne. And there, there was a moment when the demand was picking up through the mid 80s and then, and then it softened for the category. And unfortunately, it softened for the category at the time that more, more product was being produced. Um, not everybody was doing it, you know, but, but enough o- of us were that, uh, it w- it was, it was tough-
Doug Shafer:
00:34:51
It was tough.
Hugh Davies:
00:34:51
... Through the 90s.
Doug Shafer:
00:34:51
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:34:53
W- we were saved, uh, momentarily by the, the whole millennium, uh-
Doug Shafer:
00:34:58
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:34:58
... Moment.
Doug Shafer:
00:34:59
Yeah, there was lots-
Hugh Davies:
00:35:00
Seriously. I w- I ...
Doug Shafer:
00:35:02
... Lots, a lotta Champagne and sparkling wine sold at that, that year too.
Hugh Davies:
00:35:05
Up to that point, that was by far the best year that we ever had.
Doug Shafer:
00:35:08
(laughs) Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:35:09
And it was a good year. Like we had a good year, (laughs) we actually made a little bit of money. We had, we had never, uh, we had never even touched it before that. N- nothing like that. And, um, I will tell you that it was two years after my dad had passed away, and, you know, some people around, uh, were not as confident, I will say, as, as my mom, um, in the abilities of the next generation. And they probably had good reason, (laughs) I'll say there, they probably had good reason to maybe be a little suspicious. Um, and so, you know, our dad passed in '98 and, and things had, you know, we'd kinda j- just had a relatively tough stretch in there. That, that didn't help.
Doug Shafer:
00:35:51
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:35:51
And, um, the next thing you know, we have our best year ever.
Doug Shafer:
00:35:53
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:35:54
So, I think the, uh, the planets were lining up to give us, uh, the m- the millennium year, because it became a really good year to sell sparkling wine.
Doug Shafer:
00:36:03
Good, good. Well, you know, jumping back to the, your first few years here, your dad got involved in something here locally in Napa Valley, which we really haven't talked much about on, on the podcast. It comes up once in a while.
Hugh Davies:
00:36:15
Mm.
Doug Shafer:
00:36:16
And that's, that's what we call locally here, we call the Ag Preserve. And this was-
Hugh Davies:
00:36:20
Mm-hmm.
Doug Shafer:
00:36:21
... This was a really big deal, and this was in the late 60s, you were probably a two or three year old little boy so you don't remember any of this, and it was before I got out here. But your dad was a, a big proponent of it, and one of the major driving forces. And the result of the Ag Preserve, which I'd like you to explain to us, which if you don't mind, is it-
Hugh Davies:
00:36:42
Mm-hmm.
Doug Shafer:
00:36:42
... Really helped keep this valley green and in vines, especially the time when the wine business wasn't necessarily that successful to keep it that way. And, uh, so a few folks like your dad made this thing happen, and it's helped keep Napa Valley what it is today, as far as the beauty and the focus on agriculture. But can you give us a quickie on the Ag Preserve? I think folks would like to hear that.
Hugh Davies:
00:37:09
Yeah, no, thanks, uh, for asking. I, and I think it's just one of those key building blocks in the, in the, the, you know, the story of, of Napa that, that is, uh, not particularly understood or, you know, it, it's, you know, we, we just kinda take it for granted, right, that the, that the land is still here. But as a backdrop for my parents, uh, you know, growing up in, in Los Angeles County, they saw a tremendous change. (laughs) Right, I mean, the LA County, in the year that my dad was born, um, number one ag county in the state of California. Uh, you don't think of Los Angeles County for its agriculture, a- and nor have, you know, generations, right. It, it, it changed that fast. But for a moment, that's what you had there. Uh, Orange County, nicknamed after an orange. I mean, it, the, it, it is-
Doug Shafer:
00:38:00
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:38:00
... It is what it is. Uh, my dad would go to college in the, the, the late 40s at Stanford, right. So he's down there near, near Santa Clara Valley, and at that time, the Santa Clara Valley was, uh, was the number one, you know, agricultural, you know, county in, in the, you know, in the Bay Area. Um, and very productive, successful. Obviously things have changed there as well, and would change pretty quickly through the, the 50s and 60s. Um, and so as my parents would come to Napa with this idea of the, hey we're gonna do this bottle fermented sparkling wine and it's gonna be awesome, um, how could they be sure that there would still be vineyards here in 20, 30, 40 years without something to protect them? Because clearly what was happening in some of these other areas was that those, those, those lands were, were, were just, uh, they were getting paved over. And so, uh, there were others in this community that were similarly concerned. Not everybody agreed, uh, but this concept of a agricultural preserve was established.
00:39:18
And so this a zoning that is attached to much of the land today between the city of Napa and the city of Calistoga. Where you see the, you know, the vineyards, you know, between Napa and Yountville, or, and, and then the vineyards between Yountville and St Helena. Similarly, the vineyards, uh, between, uh, St Helena and Calistoga and just north of Calistoga, those lands are all in this agricultural preserve zone. Uh, minimum parcel size today, 40 acres. You can't subdivide, unless it was subdivided beforehand, into less than 40 acre parcels. That's a pretty good size parcel. You can have only one home per 40 acres. You can't do, uh, commercial or industrial activity on those lands. And so on one hand, uh, it has given us this opportunity to preserve the land for, for the purpose of al- agriculture. It, it calls the, the, the highest and best use of the land to be for agriculture. And, and then on the other hand, that, that did limit the opportunity for people to develop the land however they might want have to done that.
Hugh Davies:
00:40:35
So it's, uh, limited the private property rights of all these individuals that, that have land in this agricultural zone, uh, but our community has embraced it. You know, I think it's a testament to the camaraderie and, and collective spirit that exists here to grow grapes and, and make wine. And it, and it takes that. If you go to Burgundy, if you go to Bordeaux, you know, if you go to Rioja, we'll say, you know, if, if you go to Tuscany, you're going to, you're going to see a, a, a similar, uh, you know, kind of collective spirit to work towards, uh, creating a wine growing region. And so we're, we're lucky that, that, that our predecessors, uh, planted those seeds for, for the industry, that, that obviously have, allow us continue to be here today.
Doug Shafer:
00:41:31
Exactly.
Hugh Davies:
00:41:32
Um, beyond the Ag Preserve, there's the ag watershed zoning, which is, you know, it's a much larger area. The, the preserve itself I think is 33,000, you know, I'm rounding up a little bit-
Doug Shafer:
00:41:42
Mm-hmm.
Hugh Davies:
00:41:42
... Acres, uh, but you include the, all the again watershed lands, uh, that go into the hills, and it's 160 acre minimum parcel sizes, and, and that's, that's a lot of, of, of Napa County.
Doug Shafer:
00:41:55
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:41:55
And so we've, we've got what we got and, and I, I for one am, am really thankful for it and, and, you know, kind of proud of that, that, uh, that legacy, if you will.
Doug Shafer:
00:42:06
Well you should be. He was, he was a, a, a great proponent of it, and we all, I think, most of us here appreciate it and, and realize how great it's been to have that. But at the time, it was incredibly controversial, um, because you're, some people, you know, you're giving up some of your property rights to develop your own land, and, um, it was, it was a, a heated debate, and, um, but your, your dad was one of the guys making sure, you know, it went the right way. So, so thank goodness for him. So that was right when he got here and he's starting a winery, and then you're growing up. I'm assuming you went to my alma mater, St Helena High School?
Hugh Davies:
00:42:49
I went to, uh, schools, I went to the public school system through eighth grade.
Doug Shafer:
00:42:54
Okay.
Hugh Davies:
00:42:54
And then I went away to a private high school actually.
Doug Shafer:
00:42:56
Got it.
Hugh Davies:
00:42:56
I think my parents (laughs) thought it-
Doug Shafer:
00:42:57
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:42:59
... Then again, maybe it was part of that teenage boy thing-
Doug Shafer:
00:43:01
Ah yeah, I, I ...
Hugh Davies:
00:43:01
... But both my brothers ended up as St Helena High School, but I, uh, I went to a boarding school in Carpinteria, California.
Doug Shafer:
00:43:09
Okay.
Hugh Davies:
00:43:09
So I had this, this fairly early, uh, unique experience that was in Santa Barbara County.
Doug Shafer:
00:43:18
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:43:19
Uh, you know, closer to the ocean and, and, um, it was good. I, I really, I went there all four years. Uh, sometimes I'm surprised I, I, I was able to, to (laughs) make it all the way to the finish line, but, hey-
Doug Shafer:
00:43:31
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:43:31
... Got there.
Doug Shafer:
00:43:31
You got there.
Hugh Davies:
00:43:31
Got there, got a badge, right, got my diploma.
Doug Shafer:
00:43:37
You got it.
Hugh Davies:
00:43:37
Went on to college and, and, you know, life, life continued. But it was, uh, it was a good experience for me.
Doug Shafer:
00:43:41
Good.
Hugh Davies:
00:43:41
I've remained throughout that time, uh, close to, you know, all the, the kids that I grew up with here and, and retained a lot of the ties that I started with, uh, going back to before I ran into you playing basketball, uh-
Doug Shafer:
00:43:58
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:43:58
... You know, down at the high school.
Doug Shafer:
00:43:59
So tell me coll- post high school. Where'd, college?
Hugh Davies:
00:44:07
So I went to a place called Bowdoin College in Brunswick, Maine.
Doug Shafer:
00:44:07
Right. I got it.
Hugh Davies:
00:44:08
Uh, and so I, you know, again, you know, did another, you know, private college, small college. Um, this was, it's about as far away from Napa as (laughs) as you can get-
Doug Shafer:
00:44:22
As you can get.
Hugh Davies:
00:44:22
... In the United States. But coastal again. I, I like the idea of being on the coast. My parents encouraged me to go to New England to go to college, so I-
Doug Shafer:
00:44:31
Huh.
Hugh Davies:
00:44:31
... We did a college tour, I saw, uh, I probably saw a dozen colleges, along with my brothers. I think I was a freshman, uh, in high school at the moment when they took us back to see some colleges. And so I liked the rural, I liked the, the Maine and, and so I did study, um, history, uh, US history. Uh, I actually, one smart thing that I did when I was there was I, I started up with Spanish language. So my minor was in Spanish.
Doug Shafer:
00:45:06
Oh great.
Hugh Davies:
00:45:06
Uh, I did economics, but the Spanish became a, a pretty key piece for me. I ended up doing a semester in Spain, uh, later in Lima, Peru. And as it turns out, that's a good language to learn if you wanna be in the wine business-
Doug Shafer:
00:45:21
Yep. Yep.
Hugh Davies:
00:45:22
... Here in, in California. That was probably (laughs) that was a good move. I did do, uh, a, uh, internship with a congressman in DC. I then worked for a land trust in San Francisco for two years, back to the land preservation idea, I thought that was pretty cool-
Doug Shafer:
00:46:13
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:46:13
... And, and so, maybe somewhat inspired. I did, uh, two years working for a, a nonprofit, uh, entity called the Trust for the Land that, that does, uh, uh, real estate transactions to protect lands. And then, that got me to my mid 20s and, and I started thinking maybe the wine thing isn't such a bad idea. And, um, so I eventually went to UC Davis, did a masters degree in winemaking. And it's probably right in there that I woulda ran into you, uh-
Doug Shafer:
00:46:41
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:46:42
... Uh ...
Doug Shafer:
00:46:42
I was gonna ask you that. 'Cause you grew up, you know, in a wine family, um, so there's wine-
Hugh Davies:
00:46:46
Mm-hmm.
Doug Shafer:
00:46:46
... On the table every night, more or less, and, uh-
Hugh Davies:
00:46:49
Yep.
Doug Shafer:
00:46:49
Like s- a lotta other folks, so-
Hugh Davies:
00:46:51
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
00:46:51
... Was the wine bug always there or not really or did something happen, you know, in the, your college years or 20s where, the, you know, the light bulb went off. Or is it, or is it more of just an evolution?
Hugh Davies:
00:47:06
I had this idea of doing the, the conservation work, and then, the land preservation work, and then, um, honestly, early 90s it was tough to make a living doing that.
Doug Shafer:
00:47:25
Mm-hmm.
Hugh Davies:
00:47:26
Um, I, um, I started feeling a little bit uncomfortable, uh, with the idea that, uh, I might not actually be at the winery.
Doug Shafer:
00:47:40
Huh.
Hugh Davies:
00:47:40
You know, I started thinking about it, and so there was a moment I r- I honestly, I had like my mid-life crisis in my m- early, mid 20s, just com- just not sure what the hell I wanted to do, right. I mean, it's the-
Doug Shafer:
00:47:52
(laughs) That sounds pretty normal though, man. (laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:47:52
People start bugging you when you're like 13, they're like, "What are you gonna do, huh?"
Doug Shafer:
00:47:56
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:47:56
I dunno. Uh, so I'm 23 and I still don't know for sure.
Doug Shafer:
00:48:00
Hm.
Hugh Davies:
00:48:00
Uh, 24, and then, uh, l- long conversations with dad a- and, and mom, but they're so patient, right, they just said, you know, in, well into my 20s, you know, I'm, I'm still sitting there at the, uh, at the dinner table, trying to figure it out. And, um, so we came up with this idea that maybe I could be the wildlife biologist or research, uh, you know, uh, uh, scientist, you know, on, on, you know, the preservation side of things, or maybe, just maybe, I might get into winemaking. Okay, okay.
Doug Shafer:
00:48:30
(laughs) Uh, yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:48:31
And so, we don't have to decide yet, but we do need to start doing biology and chemistry and physics either way we're going, right.
Doug Shafer:
00:48:38
Right. (laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:48:39
And so it was, it was kinda like, okay, okay. So I, honestly, at that point, I came home, I went to, uh, Santa Rosa JC. Uh, this is, you know, here's a guy who's already got his bachelors degree and, you know, from a fine college and, and seemingly everything, uh, going for him, but, hey, you know, it's, uh, I swallow my pride, I'm gonna go to the JC, and I'm gonna take, um, biology and, and chemistry and physics. And so I do like a year of these classes, and it goes great.
Doug Shafer:
00:49:04
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:49:04
Goes great. I'm, you know, right up there, top of the class, and, uh, it was in that time, granted I was home too, um, you know, I had, I- I- I'm gonna go to, I'm gonna be a winemaker. You know, I th- I think my friends helped convince me too. They were like, "You, dude, you got, you got a great opportunity."
Doug Shafer:
00:49:23
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:49:24
So, I applied at Davis, and, uh, I ended up working at Mumm Napa. I did a, a stint at, uh, Remy Martin in Cognac. That was pretty cool. Uh, Moet et Chandon, back to Moet, in, in Champagne. That was pretty cool.
Doug Shafer:
00:49:38
How fun.
Hugh Davies:
00:49:39
A place called Petaluma in Australia. So I did like some winemakers might do, you know, the, the, the stage you know, uh, uh, internship type experiences. Um, so I did about four of those. And after that, I was done. I had my master degree, I'd done my experiences and, uh, I was 30. I was 30 when I came back to Schramsberg in 1996.
Doug Shafer:
00:50:02
All right. And, and, uh, so how did that go with your folks? I'm s- I'm assuming they were excited and happy and-
Hugh Davies:
00:50:09
Absolutely.
Doug Shafer:
00:50:10
... Over the top.
Hugh Davies:
00:50:11
(laughs) absolutely.
Doug Shafer:
00:50:11
Good.
Hugh Davies:
00:50:12
They loved it. They were, I mean, I think that they were my biggest cheerleaders.
Doug Shafer:
00:50:16
That's great.
Hugh Davies:
00:50:17
I s- I, uh, they're not here. I still feel like they're cheering, uh, really. My wife, she's pretty good too.
Doug Shafer:
00:50:23
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:50:23
And my kids.
Doug Shafer:
00:50:24
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:50:24
Yeah, they, they were so excited for ... In the end I was the one, I've got two brothers, and I was the one who said, "All right, man. I'll do it. I'll do it."
Doug Shafer:
00:50:36
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:50:36
And, and, and not a minute too soon, because, as I said earlier, my dad would pass away in '98. That wasn't part of the plan.
Doug Shafer:
00:50:43
Oh, that's, that was quick.
Hugh Davies:
00:50:45
That was not part of the plan, right. It never is. And then, um, and I was 32. So, oh, you know ... A little bit of a-
Doug Shafer:
00:50:53
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:50:54
Yep.
Doug Shafer:
00:50:54
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:50:56
And then, and then, um, with mom, we, we would move on and, uh, uh, the business, and, and, uh, you know, that f- that one millennium year was good. The, the, the next couple years actually was, were, were not. (laughs) The, the 9/11 thing was every bit as bad-
Doug Shafer:
00:51:11
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:51:11
... For business for us as the millennium thing was good. And, uh, but we stood our ground and, and the from there, it just, the thing seems to have rolled in, in a lot of positive ways and, you know, build on it, you know, the, the earlier, uh, efforts and, uh, yeah, we're, I'm thankful.
Doug Shafer:
00:51:30
No, that's great. And, and right about that time, early 2000s, I think I remember, I remember this was, it was big news to me. It was like Schramsberg's planting Cabernet. They're gonna make a Cab. I s- and I was like, "What? Come one, no. They're sparkling. I don't want any more competition. (laughs) Hey, what're you doing?" So what was, uh, what was the thinking behind Cabernet?
Hugh Davies:
00:51:50
The Cabernet, um, you know, the, the genesis of that, frankly, you know, the first discussions probably go back to the late 80s, um, and I really credit our Schramsberg wine making team at the time, uh, there was a guy named Allen Tensure, Dan Goldfield, I don't know if you've crossed their paths.
Doug Shafer:
00:52:10
Mm-hmm.
Hugh Davies:
00:52:10
But, they were, we had started to do some Carneros fruit, right, in the-
Doug Shafer:
00:52:16
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:52:17
... In the mid 80s. All right, and the, so we're a little further south in the valley, close to the Bay. Ah, well it's a little later the, uh, harvest season down here. This, this fruit actually, uh, has slightly riper flavor, even at the same sugar level. The acidity's notably higher. That's nice. We don't have to add acid to this stuff.
Doug Shafer:
00:52:36
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:52:37
Huh. Um, and so as we kept pressing forward, uh, we, we were, we were starting to realize, you know, '92, we were up in the Anderson Valley trying a little bit of the fruit up there for the sparkling. We weren't the first, right, I did-
Doug Shafer:
00:52:50
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:52:50
... Pretty good-
Doug Shafer:
00:52:51
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:52:51
So we, really I think the winemakers were the first ones to say, "We should do something else with the, the, the vineyard th- property that we have here on Diamond Mountain." And, and it wasn't my parents initial vision, for sure, uh, but I think they, they eventually would come around to realize that, yeah ... Uh, the market might not get it, but we're, we're seeing the results here inside the winery that our, that our, our better Chardonnay and Pinot results are, are not the ones coming off of the home property.
Hugh Davies:
00:53:25
And so we would then, uh, start to explore. Dad said, "Well, we're not just gonna, uh, you know, r- roll over here. You guys have gotta do some experimentation." So we have, we've had as many as, I think, 11 different red table wine varieties planted on this property. Um, for me, fun in '96, we started to make the, the Cabernet Franc and the Merlot and the, uh, the Malbec. Obviously, there's Pinot Noir, there's Pinot Meunier. We had, uh, Zinfandel, we had Syrah, we had Cabernet Sauvignon. We were looking at these, these different varietals and, and making very small batches of them to try to figure out, you know, which was gonna emerge as the leader. And, and obviously not surprisingly, by that time, we, we pushed a little further, uh, Cabernet seemed to, to emerge as like the best choice. And so, maybe counterintuitive to what other people would be thinking, 'cause we were the sparkling wine guys, uh, it made, you know, all too much sense to, to, to plant Cabernet here.
Hugh Davies:
00:54:23
And so we would produce our first Estate Cabernet, uh, Estate Diamond Mountain Cabernet, in 2001. With my mom, we launched the, the, the brand, would sell that wine in 2004. Uh, we called it J Davies Cabernet, named after my dad, Jack. So we have the J Schram named after Jacob Schram, here the J Davies named after Jack Davies. And, uh, away we've gone.
Doug Shafer:
00:54:47
Yeah, that's great.
Hugh Davies:
00:54:47
We've, we've got a winery in St Helena, we've, we do Pinot Noir as well, we do a little range of Cabernets, a little range of Pinot Noirs, and, and it's, uh, it's been exciting. You know, it's a 20 ... It's crazy, that first replanting was 28 years ago.
Doug Shafer:
00:55:00
Wow. Well, you, what you guys did was parallel to a lot of us around here. W- as we got into it, we realized, you know, um, certain grapes do better in certain s- areas of the valley, and not as well as other places. So it's b- it comes right down to, you know, plant the right grape in the right place. And, uh, you know, I remember, we used to, we had originally had 10 acres of Chardonnay here on our home ranch, here at, at the, at the, where the winery is in Stag's Leap. And it was okay, but it's a lot better Cabernet land, than Chardonnay land, so, um, and that's just been evolution for all of us. Plant the right grape in the right place. So, that's nice.
00:55:37
And you mentioned 2004. Um, I think that's when you guys got, Monique got married? Is that right?
Hugh Davies:
00:55:47
2004, we, we got married, uh-
Doug Shafer:
00:55:48
How'd you guys-
Hugh Davies:
00:55:49
... 2004. It ended up being also the year that our family hosted the, we were like the host family of the Auction Napa Valley-
Doug Shafer:
00:55:56
Oh that's right, that's right.
Hugh Davies:
00:55:57
... Or Napa Valley Wine Auction.
Doug Shafer:
00:55:58
How'd you guys meet?
Hugh Davies:
00:56:00
Uh, so that-
Doug Shafer:
00:56:00
Monique and you?
Hugh Davies:
00:56:00
... That also happened.
Doug Shafer:
00:56:00
What's, what's her story?
Hugh Davies:
00:56:02
So Monique, uh, she's great. Uh, she, she also grew up in Napa Valley, uh, a few years younger than me. Uh, sh- I grew up in St Helena, in your, you know, and, and she was more Napa. Um, the, uh, so we didn't cross paths until, uh, the, the 90s. And then we were, yeah, we both just kinda, uh, uh, looking (laughs) looking for love. I don't know. Looking for somebody-
Doug Shafer:
00:56:31
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:56:31
... At about the same time in 2002. And we met, we, uh, kind of, um, connected, I guess, if you will, a little bit w- on a, on a Napa Valley vintner tour, uh, which I'm sure you've done a few of those.
Doug Shafer:
00:56:50
Mm-hmm.
Hugh Davies:
00:56:50
I've probably done one or two of them with you.
Doug Shafer:
00:56:52
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
00:56:52
But you, where you travel around. And, and, uh, this one was, uh, Oklahoma and, and Texas, and, um, you know, great, great, you know, fun, you know, as you get, get the, you know, the gang from around the valley together to go out and promote what we do. And so she was, she had worked at Joseph Phelps for quite a few years, 13 years in total. And then it was during that time that, uh, you know, we, we started to, uh, date one another and, uh, a couple years, uh, we got married and started a family, and, and our first son was born in 2005.
Doug Shafer:
00:57:24
So you guys, you got four boys, I think that's right. And, you know, the two of you are doing kinda what your parents did. You're balancing family, work at the winery, traveling. What's it, what's it like? Is it a flash to your, what your folks did? Um, what are the joys, what are the challenges? How do you guys, how do you do it?
Hugh Davies:
00:57:46
Um, put one foot in front of the other. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
00:57:49
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:57:52
That's a corny one, and it probably came from my dad, I would imagine.
Doug Shafer:
00:57:55
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:57:56
You know, like "How do you do it, dad?" Uh, "Yeah, you just put one foot in front of the other and-"
Doug Shafer:
00:58:01
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
00:58:01
"... And keep, keep going forward." Um, but I think you have to have plans. You know, you have to have a, some kind of a vision for where you're wanting to go. I think some of level of flexibility is also important, you know, where y- where you might realize, oh, that wasn't such a good idea. Okay, you know, we, that's okay. We can, we, we can allow ourselves to, to, to make some mistakes and then, and then fix them, right. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
00:58:42
Right.
Hugh Davies:
00:58:42
And honestly, sometimes the, the, you know, the, the fix might, might lead to another opportunity that would be a positive, we tried to, uh, enjoy life, uh, despite the fact that, you know, we're on all the time. Um, we live right here at the winery. The, the winery lives right here with us. It's 24/7. Uh, there's not a whole lot of time where you're not, you're not thinking about the business and, and the, and the future and, and the past, or what have you.
00:59:30
I just feel lucky. I mean, I, how many of us get to work so hard at something just means so much to us, right? Uh, uh, you know, the product that we make is something that we really can enjoy, that other people can really, really enjoy. It, it means something to people, you know, that, they, they, they've, they've celebrated, you know, uh, great moments of their life with this, this darn product that, you know, you, we, we pour our hearts into making. It's good, like that, that's, that, that, that'll lift you for a long time. Um, the, um ... So you just try not to let, uh, the fact that you seem to be so focused and energized, uh, all the time, kinda overwhelm. And it, it is hard to step away, because you're here all the time.
Doug Shafer:
01:00:23
Right.
Hugh Davies:
01:00:23
But where are we? Ah, we happen to be living up on this hill.
Doug Shafer:
01:00:28
(laughs)
Hugh Davies:
01:00:32
And at night, you know, you hear coyotes and, you know, you might see the odd deer run around, uh, or little rabbits or foxes. You know, we've got bird feeders and, you know, all kinds of, you know, wild birds come, uh, buzzing around the house. Uh, we've got a pond the kids can, you know, fly off the rope swing. And, um, you know, we, we, we, we live well. I, I, I've, I mean, of a- I, of all the places that I, I could possibly live, I'd say this has got to be pretty, pretty good. So I, I think on, I realized all those ... For me, like back to the mid-20s, early 20, that, that moment where I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do. Um, I kinda crossed that, a lot of bridges, all at once. (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
01:01:11
Mm, yeah. You did.
Hugh Davies:
01:01:14
And figured, this as good as it, this is good as it's gonna get. And I, and now I've just been trying to live every minute and, and hopefully, um, you know, it lasts for a good, long time.
Doug Shafer:
01:01:42
We, s- sometimes we forget about it, you're so wrapped up in something and, you know, in the office, but, you know, just like you, I can walk, there's a door 10 feet away, I walk out and go another 20 feet and I'm in the middle of a Cabernet, hillside Cabernet vineyard. Take a nice little walk.
Hugh Davies:
01:02:02
Yep.
Doug Shafer:
01:02:02
(laughs) And it's like, if that doesn't calm you down, nothing else will, so we'll-
Hugh Davies:
01:02:06
And pretty soon you'll be able to go out there and taste those grapes, right?
Doug Shafer:
01:02:09
Yeah, yeah. They're getting ... Yeah. I'm looking for some color.
Hugh Davies:
01:02:10
They're not, not right now.
Doug Shafer:
01:02:10
Not yet, little, little tart. Little tart.
Hugh Davies:
01:02:15
Actually I don't want them to, to, to change color quite yet. I'm happy for that, for that-
Doug Shafer:
01:02:22
I know, 'cause it always seems like, oh it's two weeks away. No, you got to, you got some time.
Hugh Davies:
01:02:25
Eh ...
Doug Shafer:
01:02:26
Um ...
Hugh Davies:
01:02:26
We got some time.
Doug Shafer:
01:02:28
Well thanks, man. Tell me about your current lineup, Schramsberg and J Davies. So what are, what are you guys offering now? Uh, what, what different flavors?
Hugh Davies:
01:02:37
Yeah, so, I, I know that we've, um, you know, we've kind of crossed the line. I can hear dad saying that, you know, you don't wanna get distracted and do too many different offerings, right. It's, uh- (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
01:02:48
That sounds like something my, that sounds like my dad. These, those two guys were a lot alike, I think.
Hugh Davies:
01:02:53
We have, yeah about 30. Um, and, and why would we ever have so many? Part of what we've and I feel that, that's been successful for our particular winery is we've developed, uh, uh, in developing a great consumer fan base, um, we have, we've been able to, to kind of help build that by, by virtue of having a wine club. So a wine club where, where people take their quarterly shipments. And, and so, you know, years in advance, as you well understand, you know, making wine, making premium sparkling wine, I, we, we sell some of these wines that they're 10 years old. We're releasing, later this year, a 2004.
Doug Shafer:
01:03:37
Oh wow.
Hugh Davies:
01:03:37
That'd be 8, 18 year old sparkling wine. Let's go, right.
Doug Shafer:
01:03:40
That's great.
Hugh Davies:
01:03:41
And, and some of our fans, they can't get enough. They love ... I can't get enough. So, you know, I l- I love it too. But we, as we've developed that fan base and as we want to keep that club audience, uh, engaged and excited, we have to continue to present them with, you know, kind of cool, new iterations of-
Doug Shafer:
01:04:01
Okay.
Hugh Davies:
01:04:01
... Of, of these, of this range of Brut styles that we make. And so we have, uh, we have uh, uh, about 15 different sparkling wines th- that we produce. You have to have 10 to do a, a wine club.
Doug Shafer:
01:04:16
Okay. Okay.
Hugh Davies:
01:04:20
'Cause you need- (laughs)
Doug Shafer:
01:04:20
I get it.
Hugh Davies:
01:04:20
To cover, to cover all the shipments for the year, you need 10.
Doug Shafer:
01:04:20
I got it.
Hugh Davies:
01:04:20
Uh, I, I can't just give Blanc de Blanc, you know, 10 bottles at a time and, and call it good. Well, I didn't think good. So we, we make this cool range, Roses, Blanc de Blanc, Blanc Noirs, you know, those are kind of the three iterations of, of sparkling that we do. But inside of that, there are late disgorged versions, extra Brut versions on those themes, specific vineyard versions, pretty cool.
Doug Shafer:
01:04:39
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
01:04:40
Uh, but meanwhile, on the Cabernet and Pinot Noir side, the Davies side, that's where we get up to 30. We've got another 15 or so, uh, specific vineyard Pinots, specific vineyard Cabernets, and, and some iterations along those themes that we're also, uh, producing, and, and, uh, that we've developed. We talked about, the, the first one in that set was our J Davies Estate Diamond Mountain Cabernet, so that was a 2001 vintage. So here we are, uh, uh stepping up to vintage number 22-
Doug Shafer:
01:05:08
Yeah.
Hugh Davies:
01:05:09
... Of, of commercial red wine production. And, um, uh, so those are not as widely available in terms of, you know, c- uh, c- commercial availability through the stores and restaurants. The Schramsberg portfolio or some, some, some of the items in that portfolio really have great distribution. We really appreciate the, the wholesale partners. There's a company called Wilson Daniels who we've worked with for a lot of years to, to, to build a national network. And so you, we, we've kind of done it on th- th- those two sides. With the reds, a little more DTC, but we're working on the, the wholesale side as well, and it's exciting. I, I feel there's a really bright future. I, I've, I've always, always felt that. I guess I'll always feel that way.
Doug Shafer:
01:05:48
Oh, I th- I think that, I think you're right. I, I f- I see it too. So, that's fanta- ... What a great lineup. Um, so if folks wanna get ahold of them, y- what's your, what's the best way? And I'm assuming you guy have a good website.
Hugh Davies:
01:05:58
Well, simply you could go to the Schramsberg.com-
Doug Shafer:
01:06:03
Okay.
Hugh Davies:
01:06:03
... You know, website, right. So S-C-H-R-A-M-S-B-E-R-G, uh, that's the name of the, you know, the, the, there's a, there's a Davies site as well, D-A-V-I-E-S. Um, uh, a, a portion of the range is, is available throughout the, you know, the, the restaurants in the country, throughout, you know, many restaurants in the country, and, uh, and stores as well. Um, we hit 50 states, you know, not too much in some of the smaller ones, uh, and we hit probably about 30 countries. But again, uh, with more limited, you know, on a much more limited basis overseas. But, uh, yeah. We're, we're excited to keep trying to, to build it and to e- extend it.
Doug Shafer:
01:06:49
Good. Good news, good news. Great story, great family story, a real key part of the, kinda the re ener- energiz- energization, is that a word, uh, of the Napa Valley-
Hugh Davies:
01:07:44
(laughs) True.
Doug Shafer:
01:07:44
In this m- in this modern era, which is now 40 or 50 years old. But, um, s- thanks so much for your time. You, you take care. Say hi to everybody.
Hugh Davies:
01:07:52
Hey, will do. Best to you, Doug, and your family. Bye bye.
Doug Shafer:
01:07:55
All right, man. Take care. Bye bye.