Full Transcript
Doug Shafer:
Hey everybody, Doug Shafer here. Welcome back to another episode of The Taste. Uh, today we have a long time vintner friend of mine, or years. I can't k- keep count. He'll have to help me, but we normally see each other on the road. Uh, we normally have long lunches together with lots of wine, but with the pandemic, (laughs) we haven't seen each other in a long time. Donald Patz, welcome. Good to hear your voice. How are you?
Donald Patz:
I'm doing very well Doug. Thanks for including me.
Doug Shafer:
Oh man, you bet. And I was thinking about you last night. Um, I try to think about the first time we met and I'm thinking it was the tasting group with the gang at Flora Springs. Was that it or was it before that?
Donald Patz:
Probably, you know, w- um, our daughters were rough, you know, a little bit different than age, but kind of in the same school. So we probably crossed paths at, um, even elementary school in St. Alena.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
It's certainly by the time they were playing softball.
Doug Shafer:
That's right. And so that's, that's, uh, late s. So that was a while back, I think (laughing), but we won't count the years. But, um, you've been involved out here in California for a long time, over years, but, and I, I l- I wanna hear about what you're doing in the wine bus- business, but, um, the most fun part about this thing, Donald, as you know, is, is to hear people's stories and their history and where they came from. And I know you and I have something in common. We did not grow up here in the Napa Valley. We came from far away. I was Chicago, and you were from where?
Donald Patz:
Originally Minneapolis. And then I live-
Doug Shafer:
Really?
Donald Patz:
Yeah. I live ... moved, uh, from Minneapolis to Eugene, Oregon in . Um, and then moved down to California in .
Doug Shafer:
So Minneapolis, how long were you there? What age?
Donald Patz:
years. Going into ninth grade is when I left.
Doug Shafer:
Oh man. So what was, uh, what was that like, was that, uh, Minneapolis?
Donald Patz:
Cold (laughs).
Doug Shafer:
Cold (laughs). Really big mosquitoes, right?
Donald Patz:
Don't you remember the mi- upper Midwest? I mean, yeah, big mosquitoes. The state bird of Minnesota-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
... actually is the loon, but it might as well be the mosquito. Um, yeah, I l-
Doug Shafer:
Yeah, so-
Donald Patz:
I did, like, there were certain things ... I mean, we had, I, I think the reason that you stay in places like this is because of family, right?
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Donald Patz:
No, it was, it was great. I mean, you know, and, uh, and I know that your dad has something to do with Dick and Jane books. Am I wrong?
Doug Shafer:
No, you're right. He worked for a publishing company called Scott Foresman. Yeah.
Donald Patz:
And I s- yeah. I so remember learning to, um, read books on Dick and Jane books or to read on Dick and Jane books. And it really, it was amazing when I realized that your, that your dad had something to do with that. And, uh, I thought that was a, you know, pretty cool touch point, but, um, living in Minnesota, one of the th- the, beauties of being in a place like that, upper Midwest where, uh, education is really a high priority, I, I really, I realized it when I moved to Oregon and this is nothing against Oregonians at all. It's just that, um, the whole way that they funded schools in Oregon was quite different and you could, you could really feel it, I mean that there was a limited budget versus (laughs) Minnesota where we got new books every year.
Doug Shafer:
Right, right. Yeah. I, I do, I do remember that. I mean, so Chicago area was a fantastic public school system. That was great. Um, so Eugene, Oregon, so high school, high school in Eugene.
Donald Patz:
Yes, I did.
Doug Shafer:
What was high school like? What'd you do?
Donald Patz:
I wanted to be more of an athlete, but I just wasn't. So I just kinda kept my head down and was glad I was getting through it. I ended up getting a job at a grocery store, which is probably the beginnings of my curiosity about wine. So I was, you know, a box boy at this little, um, independent store. And, um, but one of the things you would do is, you know, you all kinds of different stocking things. And one of, one of the places I would be walking by quite a bit was the end caps of-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
... Annie Green Springs and Boone's Farm, um, and Ryan Lender and stuff like that. And you're, and you're like, what the hell is this all about?
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
And why are there so many different kinds? You know, I mean, what's that? How could there possibly be more kinds of wine than there are kinds of cereals? This is, doesn't even make sense, but, um, yeah. So high school was-
Doug Shafer:
So that's what I ... 'cause I was gonna ... Yeah. I was gonna ask you later about when the wine thing hit. So that was the, the earliest, the early part.
Donald Patz:
I think that, you know, that was sort of the first bump in the road that sort of-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
... uh, adjusted my trajectory, but, you know, high school was, it was, it was fun, but, you know, I was b- I was really busy with, uh, trying to, trying to help out the family, trying to make sure that we, you know, we had stuff.
Doug Shafer:
You were a worker. Well, good for you. Good for taking care of family, man. That's great. So, um, was there wine in the house?
Donald Patz:
No, my, my parents, uh, were teetotallers.
Doug Shafer:
Did you know that my dad's dad was a teetotaler? (laughs).
Donald Patz:
(laughs) I did not know that, but-
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. Which was hilarious. And then dad comes out and (laughs) starts making wine. But, but-
Donald Patz:
Yeah. Did he get like, like stern lectures whenever he would (laughs) go back home?
Doug Shafer:
Oh, no, he did. The, the famous story was, uh, dad comes back from the war after flying or , , missions, you know, in a B, ge- you know, getting shot at, in the sky. He's , comes home and walks, you know, brings a six pack of beer in the house, you know, and his dad's like, "Get that outta here right now." And dad's like, "Wow, really?" (laughs)
Donald Patz:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
So it didn't matter.
Donald Patz:
Yeah, well - I started when I was already moved out. So, uh, it wasn't, there was never an issue about it at my h- at my home. I, I'm sure that my mom was a little disappointed on my career choice, but was hopeful that my experience could be transferred to something more wholesome (laughing) um, at some point, which never obviously happened, so there you go.
Doug Shafer:
No, are you kidding? You make really good wine. It's a beautiful thing.
Donald Patz:
Well, I, I feel like I, you know, I've done some interesting stuff in my life and I'm proud of what we've done. It's just that not always, you know, your family doesn't always see you the same way that the rest of the world does. And, uh, so there you go.
Doug Shafer:
Well, that's part of the definition of family, as we all know, but that's a-
Donald Patz:
(laughs).
Doug Shafer:
... that's a whole ... maybe we'll start a new podcast. We'll call it The Family-
Donald Patz:
Yeah, families.
Doug Shafer:
... with Donald and Doug. Yeah (laughing). That'd be, be a big hit. Um, so after high school, we're off to where to then?
Donald Patz:
My mother was actually in u- when we were living in Eugene, so my mother was actually working at a local community college. So I did two years at a community college, then transferred to the University of Oregon, um, and got a, ended up getting a degree there in biology. I was a pre-med student, if you can believe this. And during w- uh, I actually was on made honor roll one time. So I was in- incorporated into the, uh, pre-med honor society at the University of Oregon. And one of the things they do, which is really unique, and I don't know any other college where you can get this experience. There may be others, but they actually contacted a, you know, um, a number of different physicians in Eugene and asked, "Hey, would you mind if, um, if a University of Oregon student who's pre-med could, uh, shadow you for a few days, a couple of ti- you know, two or three times a week for a couple of weeks?" And they, they got agreement from that. So I ended up trailing behind these doctors and it was kind of a h- at this moment, at that moment, I was already becoming a little bit interested in wine. And so we'd have these conversations where the first thing that would happen is they'd say, "You know, how are you doing in school?" So you'd talk about school at this moment. And then the next time you saw them, it was, where did you go to college? And where did you go to med school? And then all those things. And so by the third time you saw them, you've gotten all that stuff out of the way, they'd say, "well, what else are you interested in Donald?"
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
And I'd say, "Well, I'm kind of interested in wine." And every single doctor got the sort of dreamy eyed look-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
Um like, "Oh yeah, someday, man, that would be awesome. I'd love to have my own little winery and vineyard." So, you know, when I got the second, no, thank you, um, letter from, uh, the med schools, I said, "You know, maybe I can go into the wine business without having to go to med school. You know, it seems like that's what they all want to be in." So I, I felt pretty good about that part of it, but yeah ...
Doug Shafer:
Well you saved yourself , or , , years, you know.
Donald Patz:
Yeah. And probably two or $, worth of personal debt. Right?
Doug Shafer:
You know, it's funny when you started that story, I thought you were going to say, well, I was shadowing these doctors and after a couple of times seeing these patients, it's like, no, I don't wanna do this. So that's, that's funny when it went a whole new direction on me.
Donald Patz:
(laughs)
Doug Shafer:
So, all right. So, so no med school. So the wine business. So what'd you do?
Donald Patz:
I started off working for a little tiny ... uh, actually my first introduction was I, I was running a wine club for a local retail store. And so I setting up, you know, wine tastings and bringing in winemakers and setting up restaurant, uh, dinners and stuff like that. And, uh, then a wholesaler came to me and you know, this is like a year and a half later.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
Wholesaler comes to ... I'm still working at grocery stores at this point to make a living. But this wholesaler comes to me and says, "You know, uh, because of your work with this wine club, um, everybody in town knows who you are,' which I don't think was true, but, you know, I was flattered by the idea. "Um, why don't you come to work with us and, you know, make a bunch of money?" So in the next year I frittered away my entire life savings, making a bunch of money in the wine business (laughing). You know, it's, it's tough. And I started off doing sales and delivery so that I could, you know, so they could justify, um, some kind of salary part of it, but-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
Sales were, were really difficult. And, uh, you know, I, I learned a lot over a short period of time. But I realized at the same time, if I was interested in working in the wine business at this point, probably Oregon, it wasn't the best place for me because, um, most of the owners weren't making money with their wineries-
Doug Shafer:
Hm.
Donald Patz:
... and they certainly couldn't afford to hire somebody like me. Now, remember, this is like early s. Uh, and so not today, I'm sure that everybody's super successful in Oregon today, but, um, (laughs) just like us, right Doug? Uh, uh, but, (laughing) but the, uh, but it was obvious that if I was interested in doing something in the wine business, I probably should move to California. And so, um, that's what we did in .
Doug Shafer:
Interesting. Yeah, you're exactly right. 'Cause back at, in that period of time, Oregon was coming on, they were growing grapes and making wine, but they weren't, you know, well, anybody making wine wasn't making as good wine as they are now. So, but I see what your points, so yeah. Um, so go to California. So, uh, you picked up and head out. So was there a game plan? Did you know w- what part ... where are we gonna go? Are you gonna go central coast or Lodi? Or what were you gonna go?
Donald Patz:
Yeah, so we, we literally sat in, um, in the kitchen and looked at a map of Northern California and said, "Hey, check it out. Santa Rosa is about the same size as Eugene. So let's move there." (laughs).
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) You did a lot of research there. Didn't you, about that guy. Yeah.
Donald Patz:
Yeah. The in depth. Oh yeah. Yeah. I knew it, I knew everything, so, (laughs) yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. So you moved to Santa Rosa, and then-
Donald Patz:
First, yes. And, and eventually, um, like, uh, t- about two years later, I got a job. I got my first real supplier side job with Flora Springs, um, in . And then, uh, in, you know, after about six months, we moved from Santa Rosa over to St. Helena, which is why we crossed paths.
Doug Shafer:
That's right. 'Cause our daughters were right about, born about that ... in '. Yeah, Katie was born in '. Um-
Donald Patz:
Yeah. Lauren is '. So there you go.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. 'Cause that's where I met you. So we had this, uh, I was lucky enough to be invited to be in, ina his tasting group with, uh, it was probably half the folks were winemakers, half the folks were sales folks, salespeople, mostly winemakers?
Donald Patz:
No, no. It was, it was really all wine makers, exc- except for me. (laughing) I'm not sure why I was in it.
Doug Shafer:
Well, 'cause you organized it. We had to have somebody put it together as, as I recall.
Donald Patz:
It's, it's spoken other guy, but, uh, but no, it was, it was a really interesting group. And in fact, I think they started in like or something like that. And, and I think there's an iteration that continues. I might be wrong in this, but I th- I think there might be a cont- a, a group that's continuing that despite the fact that members have come and gone over the years.
Doug Shafer:
Well, okay. I'm trying to remember who was there? You were in it. I was in it, uh, Kenny Deis winemaker at Flora Springs -
Donald Patz:
Joe Cafaro, um-
Doug Shafer:
Joe Cafaro, Craig Williams, Phelps.
Donald Patz:
Yeah. He was sometimes there not always.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Donald Patz:
Mike Fisher, um-
Doug Shafer:
Mike Fisher, uh, Ann Moses, and James Saaw-
Donald Patz:
And James Saaw. Both, both of them were, were in it.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
Uh, and there were other people who kinda ca- you know, would come sometimes and then other times couldn't.
Doug Shafer:
What was it sometimes? 'Cause I was ... yeah.
Donald Patz:
Uh, but, but was, was there.
Doug Shafer:
I was a sometimes 'cause he always gave me a hard time 'cause I didn't make it all the time.
Donald Patz:
We (laughs)-
Doug Shafer:
Yeah, go ahead.
Donald Patz:
Well, you had said, you had such unique excuses why.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
Like, I had to tie up my tomatoes and you know, needed to fold my socks that night, so-
Doug Shafer:
I had to bathe the baby, you know, I had to, you know, the cooling was off at the winery. I had to go check it. Yeah. I d- I was pretty creative, I, I admit, but, uh, that was a fun group. And uh, I learned a lot in that group, but, uh, I also learned, I could never .., I always flunk the April fools tasting. Yeah.
Donald Patz:
Everybody flunks that that was the, it was the, it was the most difficult. And what, you know, what you're talking about was the tasting where we would as winemakers or, you know, auxiliary members, um, we would line up wines that were totally blind. And you had to, you know, guess the vintage, guess the varietal, guess the, you know-
Doug Shafer:
Country.
Donald Patz:
... the country and, um, you had the, you know, you could guess the, the place. So if you thought it was, um, you know, Nebbiolo, you had to figure out it was Barolo or Barbaresco and from Italy and, uh, yeah, most people got the majority of them wrong. Uh-
Doug Shafer:
No. Yeah. You get a, you get a point for every, you know, thing you got right.
Donald Patz:
Right.
Doug Shafer:
So the only reason I got points is if we could (laughs) ... 'cause I remember I said, "Look, can we get a point if we call it, if we know if it's red or white?" And you guys thought I was a fool, but it's the only way I got on the board. It's a red wine (laughs).
Donald Patz:
No, that's not ent- that's not entirely true, but, but it's a really instructive thing because what it does is, and you know, this is what I took away from it Doug is that, you know, that's not our job as winemakers.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
We're not really supposed to be able to, you know, tell the location of every wine that we ever taste, especially, you know, from outside of our local little area where we're working. Um, we do, we taste wines for different reasons. We taste wines, you know, to see if they're on track or if they're going haywire.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Donald Patz:
Are there flaws or, you know, is everything cool? Um, and those are, that's a totally different way of looking at wine and thinking about it. And you really saw it in this group because my favorite tasting was one, I think we did a Chevil blanc where several of the wine makers said, you know, "Oh man, if I was making this wine, I would have added just a little bit of acid, you know, ton of brighten it up."
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
And I'm sure I didn't make any friends that night because the next thing I said was, "Yeah. How many people here ..." and remember, you know, the average Cabernet at the time that we're talking about was probably $ a bottle.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Donald Patz:
I said, "How many people here are selling wine at a $ a bottle?"
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
Of course, nobody raised their hands. I don't think it needs acid.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) I think it's just fine.
Donald Patz:
It's selling okay at . So yeah.
Doug Shafer:
My favorite was always Ann Moses when a wine had a, a little bit of, a little bit extra oak on, she, her comment was, "A shameless amount of new Oak."
Donald Patz:
(laughs).
Doug Shafer:
I just loved that line, but, um, fun times, fun times.
Donald Patz:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
So Flora, Flora Springs, you were there doing director sales for ... how long were you there? A couple of years. Two or three?
Donald Patz:
Six years.
Doug Shafer:
Six years.
Donald Patz:
I left at the, at the very end of, uh, of, uh, so I was there all of ... five years or whatever it is, but, um, yeah, I left at the end of and then went to work at Girard Winery, um, in February of ' and was there until - the fall of , at which point it was really obvious to me that, you know, I had to either decide to give up the little nascent project I was working on called Patz and Hall or make that my full-time job because, you know, if I can't make my own project work, who needs to hire me to make theirs work?
Doug Shafer:
Right, right. But let's talk about Patz and Hall because it, uh, it started out as a small little project, but it became a very successful winery. So tell me, tell me how that all came together.
Donald Patz:
Well, James Hall and I met when we were both working at Flora Springs and you know, we had these ongoing conversations. The truth is, we've mentioned the real w- the, the main wine maker at Flora Springs was a guy named Ken Deis. We mentioned him earlier. But Ken saw me when I first started as a short timer, because there had been somebody else in my job that only lasted about six months.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
So Ken, Ken had no time for me. (laughs) Why, why bother with a guy who's not gonna be here in six months? So the only guy I could find to ask questions about the wines that I was supposed to then be representing to the world was James. And, uh, and, you know, we struck up this conversation. We kept talking about what was going on in the cellar, but also, you know, what we personally like to do. And, um, James was hired to become the winemaker at Honig Cellars, uh, and at that point, um, in ', he was, uh, tasked with finding custom crush projects that would fit inside Honig.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, okay.
Donald Patz:
And I was already thinking, you know, I would really like to make a little bit of wine on my own because I'm kind of outside that group. Um, I'm focused on selling and, you know, maintaining distribute- distribution channels for Flora Springs, but it'd be fun to be on the creative side and, and use some of the things I've been thinking about. And James and I were at- were at lunch one day and, and I realized to myself, I didn't say it to him at the time that, you know, James actually has more technical background in the wine making and I probably could help sell it. So this might actually be a business.
Doug Shafer:
Hm.
Donald Patz:
Um, and so we got together my now ex-wife and James and Anne, um, had dinner together. And, um, I suggested, why don't we try this, uh, start a partnership to create, um, Chardonnay as i- initially, and then eventually pinot noir? Um, and we made our first, first vintage in and away, we went.
Doug Shafer:
That's, and so you had a custo- so James made it at, uh, he was at Honig and you guys-
Donald Patz:
Yes.
Doug Shafer:
So you, your project was a custom crush project for Honig.
Donald Patz:
It was. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
So-
Donald Patz:
A- and it, and we were a custom crushed project there for a long time. I mean, I think it was harvests we did at Honig before we were sort of-
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
Donald Patz:
We got too big and, and they wanted to get bigger. So it was time for us to find our own space.
Doug Shafer:
With you. So here's a question for you. So for James, 'cause I'm thinking of a conflict of interest. For James and working at Honig as the winemaker, but part of their gig was to do custom crush shops, so he really didn't a conflict 'cause he was doing what Honig want him to do is have some custom crush line, but you're working at Girard or Flora Springs or Girard selling wine -
Donald Patz:
Flora Springs, yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Flora Springs, pardon me. Flora Springs and Girard and you've got this as doing sales, but you've got the side project going. I was always curious about that. I never talked about that.
Donald Patz:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Was that, was there any, any tension conflict on that?
Donald Patz:
Well, I think eventually it was, uh, it, it bothered the owner. I, I'm, you know, they didn't really actually say it this way, but I bel- I believe it, it contributed to some changes that, uh, Flora Springs made in terms of their, um, their marketing and sales. They eventually, uh, chose to go a different direction-
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Donald Patz:
... and that's why I ended up, um, moving on to Girard, but going into Girard, Steve Girard knew upfront what I was doing.
Doug Shafer:
Great.
Donald Patz:
So obviously if he had a problem with it, he wouldn't have hired me to begin with.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
Um, but I, you know, the thing is, is when we started, it was like cases. I mean, you know, dude, if you can't sell cases-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
... um, you might as well stop actually doing anything in the wine business and just go find something else to do. Uh, so it, uh, you know, for the first few years, anyway, it was so small that I really kind of saw it as irrelevant. It didn't ... I went out of my way not to talk about it when I was, um, doing anything for Flora Springs.
Doug Shafer:
Right. Yeah, you can't. But at the same time, you sell out a year wine in Flora Springs hasn't sold out of their wine. They were like, "Hey, what's going on?" What do you say?
Donald Patz:
Yeah. Well, if they were making cases, I could have sold out of their wine too (laughs).
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) Good point. All right. So you guys start off, cases. You start growing ... how long does it take to get to , cases, , cases, and eventually, how big did you get?
Donald Patz:
So I think the first year that we did , cases probably was ... I think it was probably ' or '. Um, maybe even later ' or ', somewhere in there. And then , cases was probably, you know, like five or six years later than that. _n and , just before we sold out, uh, Ste. Michelle, um, Ste. Michelle wine estates up in Washington, we were, um, at about just under , cases.
Doug Shafer:
Okay. And help me on this one. Am I, do you, did you guys own, own any vineyard land?
Donald Patz:
We didn't. Now, we were, you know, we did not. And, uh, and we, but we had some great contracts, uh, for some fabulous fruit and it, and it was really kind of a learning experience for me. You know, the assumption was, do you wanna be in the wine business first, you have to go out and buy the raw land and you've gotta develop it. And I mean, that was a m- that was the model for a long time. Um, but I think, you know, a lot of wineries, uh, whether they own land or not buy some of their grapes. Um, and so, you know, my thought was, well, if you can buy some why not just buy them all? Um, I didn't wanna get up that early in the morning to do cross protection anyway. Uh-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) All right. But, but I mean no land and you're buying all your grapes ... how many growers did you guys have? I mean, how m-
Donald Patz:
(laughs) Well, some of the g- some of the guys that were pretty big, you know, I mean, the Duttons are not a small production thing-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
... and Martinellis also own quite a bit of land over in Sonoma and, and have quite a bit of grapes. Um, it was, uh, it was probably or f- between and , depending on the year different growers.
Doug Shafer:
Because I'm, when I'd run into you locally, you were always like, "Well, I'm heading up here to go ... I got to go see a vineyard and over here, I gotta go down there. I gotta go see a vintner."
Donald Patz:
(laughs).
Doug Shafer:
I mean, it's, it's either you're on the road selling wine or you were, you were the grower guy, 'cause James make, is making the wine. So-
Donald Patz:
No, James was, James was the grower guy too, but you know, it was fun to ... That was my favorite part. So, you know, we sell a, we sell the company to Ste. Michelle and they go, "Donald, now, you'll only ... you, you can do all the things you love the best, travel around and sell the wine." And I, (laughing) I laugh, I go, "That wasn't my favorite part. That was the part I did because you know, it matched my skills the best probably-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
... uh, within the group." But, um, my favorite part was walking around in vineyards and kicking dirt-
Doug Shafer:
Kicking dirt.
Donald Patz:
... and talking to the guys out there and, you know, looking at the grapes and hoping that they were gonna be just as good as they look like right now.
Doug Shafer:
Uh (laughing), what's, what's cause every grower is different.
Donald Patz:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
I mean, everybody's got different goals and the winery and the winemaker has their goals. How do you keep to growers happy? What is your secret? What's the key?
Donald Patz:
You know, well, I guess we've ... we, we chose those guys because they, you know, they were in alignment with what we wanted to do for the most part and they understood why we were asking them to do stuff. And then you, you basically, you know, it's like any other relationship you treat each of them a little bit differently. You learn what it is that, that they get upset about and you, you know, a- and the things that they really like and you play to the strengths of each one of them. And it's, isn't, you know, there's no, uh, it's not like you're being insidious or like, you know, insincere, it's just, you learn to, you know, to work with these guys. Um, and if they were difficult, then eventually we rotated them out of the, of the program because who needs another headache?
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
Um, and there were, there were people who, uh, and, you know, not to point at anybody, but there were, there were people who were better at talking about what they were doing in the vineyard rather than actually doing what they were saying they were doing. And, you know, after a couple of vintages, um, you know, we'd find somebody else's grapes to buy. Uh, and, and a, a, a number of those people went on to having successful relationships with other people. So it was probably us.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
You find the people that work best with you and you, the other thing is we almost never argued about pricing. You know, it was within reason. Um, if it was another $ a ton and they, the grower was gonna be happy because we were willing to go up a $ a ton, we went up a $ a ton-
Doug Shafer:
Yeah, right.
Donald Patz:
... on price or two or three or whatever the number was, as long as it was sort of tracking along basically with the way that pricing was happening in either Napa or Sonoma when we were looking for grapes in either one of those places. And as long as it wasn't like, well, the Napa average is, you know, a ton for Chardonnay. So we want , from you.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
Um, or alternatively, as long as it wasn't, um, one, a re- a requirement that we do it as a single vineyard designate and two, that they got, um, a price based on our retail price, uh, then we were in pretty good shape.
Doug Shafer:
Got it. And, but you guys did do some single vineyard stuff. Didn't you at Patz and Hall?
Donald Patz:
A bunch.
Doug Shafer:
A bunch?
Donald Patz:
Yeah, oh, we did a bunch. Yeah. And we liked it. I r- I really liked, and I'm still doing that with my new projects, but, but I, I think that, um, you know, I think that it's, it, it speaks to the place that we're in. We're in one of the most glorious places. And I'm, and when I say that I'm, I'm talking about both Napa and actually any place in Northern California, um, that I've purchased grapes from in the past, are, are just remarkable. And we're so fortunate to be able to, uh, to be able to, you know, buy these grapes or grow these grapes ourselves, whichever it is, um, and make incredible wines. I, I really believe we're living in kind of a golden age of wine, probably the likes of which humanity has never seen before.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Donald Patz:
Um, more great wines around the world than it ever been produced. And so here we are in, um, you know, a little blessed area a- and allowed to, uh, to make these wines and to share them with friends. It's just a real privilege.
Doug Shafer:
I'm with you, I'm with you, even though, you know, even though you made pinot, but that's okay (laughs).
Donald Patz:
(laughs) Well, I realized how easy it was to make cabernet. So now I'm doing that too (laughs).
Doug Shafer:
Oh, here we go. Here we go. All right. Full disclosure to our, our listeners. Um, this, this, our guest today, and I have a long, long history, and it basically is usually debating about the merits of pinot noir versus cabernet.
Donald Patz:
(laughs).
Doug Shafer:
And he's a pinot guy and I'm a cab guy and we've never really resolved it, but we have mutual respect for good, really good wine, so-
Donald Patz:
Of course we do. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Of course we do, but, uh-
Donald Patz:
Any- I'm sure that anybody listening to this can hear the-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
... the joy in our, in our discussion that we're, we, we really respect each other and have a lot of fun doing it, but that doesn't mean that you don't get to poke the guy once in a while.
Doug Shafer:
No, poke ... I can't believe you just said that, how easy it is to make cabernet. Oh, okay.
Donald Patz:
(laughs).
Doug Shafer:
Well, we'll talk, we'll talk, we'll talk later. Anyway. So Patz and Hall, , you guys opened a tasting room in Napa. You got a general manager, hiring staff, uh, you’re at a warehouse in Sonoma making wine. It just, was, was this, was it crazy times 'cause you're staffing up and making more wine? What was that like?
Donald Patz:
Well, you know, it's, there comes a point in your business where you say, I'm, I'm doing a bunch of stuff, but I'm, I'm using the skills that I have to the best advantage of our company or are there other people that we can bring in to support what we're doing and be, become more effective? And, and so we went through a whole process of, uh, analyzing our business and trying to figure out how we could structure it in order for all of the partners involved to, uh, to be more efficient and effective. And so, yeah, basically the idea was, let's bring some help in to, uh, to help manage the business and also, um, a number of other elements, like the direct-to-consumer side of it and the tasting room.
Doug Shafer:
Right, right. And, uh, because it, it all changed so much in the two thousands, for sure. Um-
Donald Patz:
It really did. You know, in there were very few people that were trying to sell all of their wine direct to consumer. And by the time you get to the early two thousands, that was the new model is, why bother to sell it to restaurants or retail stores or distributors across the country when you can, you know, sell it to every ... I've got a bunch of friends, I'll put them all on a mailing list and sell all my wine.
Doug Shafer:
Right. So you're rocking along, then comes along and here's a story I don't know. You meet a gal named Michelle and, uh, your life begins to change with that. Tell me about Michelle.
Donald Patz:
Sure. You know, well, let's back up one second because, you know, I had a- it's not like we met while I was still married (laughing). We, I had, I had been divorced for a number of years already. So I it's, uh, it is kind of a crazy love story in that, um, you know, m- my son told me that I should probably get a Facebook account and th- and this had nothing to do with romance at this point. Just, he thought that I would, might enjoy that. So I got-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
... uh, set up a Facebook account. Why not? Right?
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Donald Patz:
And so then you start getting, as I'm sure anybody who's set up a Facebook account back in the day, you suddenly get a whole bunch of people who wanna be your friends, that you don't even know who they are.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
Now, why do they wanna be a friend? So I, it, it dawned on me finally that, you know, maybe at least some of these people are just curious about what a wine guy does. Right?
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
They recognize the last name. And so, um, I said, fine. We'll just sort of, you know, unless somebody looks like (laughing) a mass murderer, then (laughs), then maybe, you know, we'll just be friends on Facebook and that'll be great. And then I'll put on a little bit of stuff about my personal life and a little bit of stuff about what I'm doing in terms of the wines and stuff like that.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Donald Patz:
Anyway, so I have a bunch of friends I don't know who they are.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
And one day I sit down, (laughing) I sit down and I look ... I, I don't know if I’ve shown you this picture or not. It's a, it's actually the opening page on my iPhone is the picture that I saw that day. I'm just fanning through the, the f- the news feed basically and I see this picture. It's this woman, um, riding in a car and has sort of a Mona Lisa kinda smile on and semi-mirrored sunglasses. And she's beautiful. And I, and below that, it's a picture that, that her son has taken and her son posts it and says, "Check out my mom. Isn't she hot?"
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
So he's, he's saying this, not just to me, he's saying this to the world. Right?
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
Donald Patz:
And at that moment, as we all know, because we're all Facebook fiends, um, I had three choices. I could have A, done nothing and continued on my merry way. B, I could have written something like "Hubba, hubba, hubba. Oh yeah, she's hot."
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
Probably not appropriate, but I could have done that or C click the like button and move on. And so I did C, I did click the like button and moved on and thought nothing more about that really too much. minutes later, get an email from her son saying, "No, really. I think you should meet my mom. I think you'd really like her."
Doug Shafer:
Her s- I've never heard this. Her son did it.
Donald Patz:
Who, who are you? What? Why are you, why are you saying this? Um, and so finally I, I said, "Uh, sure." You know, I don't have no ... I don't even know where they live.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
Uh, and I said, "Yes, you know, if you're ever in California or, you know, you wanna come up to the Napa Valley, let me know. And you know, it would be, I would love to meet her. It sounds ... she's, she looks like a b- a really lovely person."
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Donald Patz:
And so, you know, something fairly innocuous actually I thought. And another email comes in another five or minutes later saying, "Are you around this weekend?" (laughing) Wait, what? So I, my response was, "Well, I'm here Friday and Saturday, but Sunday I've got to go to Texas for a sales trip." He says, "I'm bringing my mom to meet you." Like, at this point, now I'm looking it up ... and looking him up on, um, Facebook and I-
Doug Shafer:
How old is ... how old is this kid.
Donald Patz:
I think he was like or something like that at that time.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) Okay.
Donald Patz:
And, uh, I'm looking, I'm looking him up on, uh, on his page and I realized he's in Washington DC. So I'm thinking, wow, that's pretty crazy bringing your mom across the country to ... fine, sure. Why not? So of course, the day of they're flying out together, they miss their flight so they have to up, and I've got to meet her by myself at the airport. I'm standing at the airport going, wow, this could have been ... this could be the stupidest thing I've ever done my entire life.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
This could be a complete disaster and I may regret this the rest of my life. Right? But, um, it didn't turn out that way, happily. Uh, it was a lovely first meeting. We had, um, a lot of fun. We went to dinner together. It was Fleet Weeks in, in San Francisco and we were eating along the Embarcadero. You could see fireworks going off. I said, "Hey, first date, I got fireworks for you. How do you beat that?" (laughing) But I, so we had, we had fun. And, uh, and so we kept in touch and she came out to California to visit and we, uh, met again in New York. She came up from Washington DC to see me when I was working in New York and then sort of one thing led to another and next thing I know, um, she's, I'm trying to convince her to move to California.
Donald Patz:
So of course she has to have alm- of course if I'm with a woman, it's somebody with, you know, a little more than some intelligence. So she's got all these reasons she doesn't have to move to California. One of which is, "I don't really like ..." you would like her. "I don't really like pinot noir that much. Anyway, I'd rather drink Bordeaux or California cabernet."
Doug Shafer:
That's right. That's why I love this woman because she's a cabernet gal (laughs).
Donald Patz:
(laughs) So my response was, 'cause I'm a sales guy, which means, or I would cl- you know, that's kind of one of my backgrounds. Uh, I, I said, "Fine, move to California. I'll make Cabernet for you."
Doug Shafer:
Oh, oh (laughs).
Donald Patz:
And, uh, she moved to California and I didn't get a chance to do the Cabernet project until later. But, um, yeah, I did it.
Doug Shafer:
You did it. Wow. And you guys ended up getting ma- when did you guys get married?
Donald Patz:
.
Doug Shafer:
.
Donald Patz:
It was the earthquake. Literally, it was the earthquake. Um, you know, the-
Doug Shafer:
The earthquake in ... the Napa earthquake.
Donald Patz:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Donald Patz:
So we, you know, we, we, we wake up the bed is leaping around the r- (laughs) the be- the ro- the bedroom.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Donald Patz:
And uh, like the next day she's ... I've been telling her, look, anytime you want to get married, I'm happy to do it 'cause let's, you know, let's plan it and, and, and get married.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
She says, "No, I'm okay. I'm okay." Um, and then, you know, like two days later she goes, "We're getting married." I said, "Great. When do you want to?" "In, as soon as possible. We could die anytime I wanna (laughs), I wanna be married." (laughs).
Doug Shafer:
Oh. Oh, that's great. That's great. Yeah. I do remember. It was like a surprise, all of a sudden, "Hey, we're, we're, we're married, we're having a party." It's like, wow, when'd that happened.
Donald Patz:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) It was quick. It was fast. All right. That's ' and s- ' was a big year.
Donald Patz:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
What happened with '? You had the big move. Yeah.
Donald Patz:
Well, it started in , -
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Donald Patz:
... when we started talking with Ste. Michelle and, um, these kinds of events,, yes, take forever I swear.
Doug Shafer:
Hm.
Donald Patz:
You know, attorneys on both sides and everybody wants to do this or that. And you know, they absolutely can't do that. Then five minutes later, it's possible. And yeah, I went around and around for a while, but eventually, um, we agreed to sell to Ste. Michelle. And, uh, and I, I think everybody had their own reason for it. Right?
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
I mean, and, you know, we've been doing this for a while. Um, and you, this is kind of what went through my mind. I don't, I can't speak for the other partners, but, um, we had, uh, a complicated partnership agreement and, um, you start to say to yourself, "Well, how much longer do I wanna keep working?
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Donald Patz:
You know, is it, is it five years? Is it years?" And let's say it's five years. It turns out to be longer than that for me. But let's just say it was five years. In five years, will we have somebody interested in buying us or will you be looking at a market where nobody is selling and the values of every company has gone down by a quarter?
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
So you got this deal in front of you and you say, you know, maybe this is the best time, even though it doesn't feel like I wanna do, I want to quit yet, but maybe this is the best time for this project to end.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Donald Patz:
And I suspected that there were similar thoughts on the other partners, but we never really sat down and talked about, you know, the motivations. It was more, does this deal feel like is a reasonable deal or not.
Doug Shafer:
And it was 'cause I think, you know, I remember seeing you afterward, you were, you were very content you were happy about it.
Donald Patz:
Um, well, I think we were, everyone was equally unhappy (laughs). You know, I think, I think if, if the deal is the buyer thinks they overpaid and the seller thinks that they didn't get quite enough, then that's probably the right deal for everybody. (laughs) So-
Doug Shafer:
Well, yeah. I, yeah. Everybody's, everybody's a little upset or it's e- either everybody is ... yeah.
Donald Patz:
Not, not upset, but you know, a l- if they wished they could have gotten a little bit better deal on bo- on, everybody, I think wish they had gotten a little bit better deal out of it. But, um, you know, it is what it is and it is more money than I'd ever made before. And so it was satisfying to know that what we had worked on for almost years actually had value and-
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Donald Patz:
... and other people appreciated what we'd been doing. Um, I, we all signed contracts to continue to work for a year. And at the end of that year, um, it was clear that Ste. Michelle really didn't have a clear idea of what they wanted from me going forward. So my counter proposal was, well, why don't you just, um, release me for my noncompete and, uh, and you won't have to pay me anymore? And they said, "Oh, okay. Yeah, we'll do that."
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) Well, good.
Donald Patz:
Yeah. So May st, , I was released from, uh, from my non-compete with, uh, Ste. Michelle and hit the ground running, started looking for grapes and had plans to do some new projects.
Doug Shafer:
And you, you f- you, you and Michelle formed, uh, what's, it's the Donald Patz Wine Group. Correct?
Donald Patz:
That Donald Patz Wine Group. Yep.
Doug Shafer:
Great name, love it.
Donald Patz:
I can't actually put that on the front label because, because I sold the name Patz-
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Donald Patz:
... but, but I am allowed to use the Donald Patz Wine Group as a business name.
Doug Shafer:
Well, good.
Donald Patz:
So none of the, none of the wines are called Donald Patz, but that's okay. It was fun to, uh, to think about new stuff too.
Doug Shafer:
No. So, so tell, tell us about the, the whole new program 'cause it sounds really exciting. I've heard parts of it, but not the whole program. So what's the deal?
Donald Patz:
So I have three new projects. Like I tell people, you know, if you sell one, of course, you're going to start three. Right?
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
But I really had two in mind. Um, one was to fulfill the promise to my wife to make cabernet for her and, um, I was happy to do that. And despite the fact that we like to go back and forth over which, you know, which is the greater grape, both are lovely and a lot of fun to work with. Uh, they're quite different and you'll approach them different. But, um-
Doug Shafer:
Well and, and cabernet, and cabernet is really easy. So that's a no brainer (laughs).
Donald Patz:
Super easy. Yeah. It actually falls off the vine and rolls into the bottle all by itself.
Doug Shafer:
I know. Isn't it cool?
Donald Patz:
Awesome.
Doug Shafer:
I love it. Elias and I sit back and have a cold beer and watch that happen every year. It's so neat (laughs).
Donald Patz:
(laughs) Yeah, that's exactly right. Um, (laughs) but-
Doug Shafer:
Okay, so you're making cabernet. Where is ... is it Napa cab, Sonoma cab, where is it?
Donald Patz:
I do two.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Donald Patz:
Um, I'm doing two now. I'm doing one from a vineyard that, um, Judy Jordan owns actually called Sage Ridge, which is, um, up Sage Canyon Road on the opposite Ridge line from, um, Pritchard Hill.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Donald Patz:
So Prich- as you go up towards, um, Lake Berryessa, it, uh, Pritchard Hill would be on your right-hand side, Sage Ridge is on the left-hand side up on the ridge.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Donald Patz:
It's a spectacular sight, spectacular sight, man. It, it, it's a good thing you didn't go up there with me that day. You'd be buying grapes from them too 'cause it's just gorgeous. These little vineyard plots that sort of run across the ridge line. And, uh, so I signed up for a very small piece there, but even before that, um, I decided that you were lonely in Stags' Leap-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
... and you needed a real competitor. So, (laughs) so I'm, I'm buying grapes, I'm buying grapes from Hirondelle Vineyard, which is part of the Clos du Val group.
Doug Shafer:
Right, right. I know it.
Donald Patz:
Um, and uh, yeah, I'm getting a little bit of fruit from there, right? Basically next door to Stags' Leap Wine Cellars and uh, it's, it's really cool. I love, I've, I've always loved Stags' Leap and um, it certainly your wines are part of the reason that I like that area, but, but others as well.
Doug Shafer:
Sure. No, thank you. Oh, good. All right. So two cabs and by the way, sort of the first one Sage Ridge and Pritchard Hill, that's on the eastern side of the valley.
Donald Patz:
Yeah, it is. You know, up I the hills in the east.
Doug Shafer:
So it's [crosstalk ::] up in the hills and eastern side.
Donald Patz:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
So you're at Silverado Trail. You head east up the ... what's that road? . It goes up to Lake Hennesey.
Donald Patz:
Yes.
Doug Shafer:
Got it.
Donald Patz:
S- Sage, Sage Canyon road (laughs).
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) Okay. All right. All right.
Donald Patz:
How long have you loved here?
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. You know, I, I ride my bike on that road. I just don't know the name of it. It's that road (laughs).
Donald Patz:
That road, yeah.
Doug Shafer:
That road. All right. So you got two cabs. What else do you have?
Donald Patz:
Um, for, for that particular project, it's just cabernet sauvignon, but, but I realized in t- I had a little excess fruit and so I created a secondary label called JML. It's a, it's my wife's Korean initials-
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Donald Patz:
Jung Min Lee, JML. And so we, we make a small amount of, uh, of a second label under that as well, which is really cool. It's a, it's a, um, line drawing of my wife's face, actually. It's really accurate. And, uh, you know, if you've ever met her, you immediately recognize who it is on the label.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
It's, it's a lot of fun. But then, um, you know, um-
Doug Shafer:
Hang on, I gotta stop you. Did we talk about the name of the first one? It's called Secret Door Winery.
Donald Patz:
Secret Door. Yeah. Secret Door Winery.
Doug Shafer:
Got it. That's the two ca- the two cabernets. Got it. Thanks.
Donald Patz:
Yep.
Doug Shafer:
All right.
Donald Patz:
And, uh, let's say it one more time. Secret Door, uh, (laughing). The, uh, the project that prob- that is the largest of what I'm doing is, um, is focused on Russian River, specifically Russian River Chardonnay and pinot noir, um, you know, brings together all of the stuff that I learned, um, with Patz and Hall. Uh, and I'm working with a number of the people that sold grapes to Patz and Hall. A- and when I started that in , I specifically told them, um, I'm not buying ... I'm not buying grapes from any site where Patz and Hall is currently purchasing grapes because I do not want it to look like I walked out the front door and tried to yank all the best grapes. Um, and, but I said after the first year, you know, all bets are off. And if grapes come up in a vineyard that I'm interested in, uh, even if Patz and Hall is currently pa- buying them, um, I I'd be interested in at least talking about it. So haven't really ended up with a lot of them. There's a couple of vineyards where there's some crossover, but mostly it's separate stuff.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Donald Patz:
Um, and chardonnay and pinot noir, uh, are things I really love, but you know, the cool thing about this, Doug, is that, uh, after doing Patz and Hall, you know, working with the Patz and Hall and doing the Patz and Hall stuff for years, I got a chance to start over and really wipe the slate clean and just say, okay, you know, years ago when I started this stuff, this is what I thought was super important and what I wanted to drink, but you know what? I'm a little older now and different and probably want to drink something different. So let's make the wines I wanna drink today as opposed to the ones I wanted to drink in '.
Doug Shafer:
Wow. Fun.
Donald Patz:
And, uh, it was r- really fun.
Doug Shafer:
Nice.
Donald Patz:
Really fun. Got to look at, you know, different vineyards and think about, um, how that might play into the style of winemaking that I was interested in doing. And so the essence of the differences have been, I'm picking grapes a little less high in sugar-
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Donald Patz:
... than we used to do for Patz and Hall. Um, specifically in order to get, uh, the acid pH balance where I want it to be and make chardonnay that is refreshing and bright and, um, but yet complex and, and, you know, has the, the depth to be a serious wine. That's been an, that has been really a revelation. Uh, and then with, with pinot noir, um, a similar kind of thing. Again, picking a little less high in sugar, but I'm also using a lot more whole cluster. So we're doing %, whole cluster. And, and for me, that really brings out the pinot, that, the pinot perfume - that really exotic sort of pinot-y character that's just not like any other red grape and is sort of, for me the best thing about pinot noir. So, a lot of fun.
Doug Shafer:
And that's, uh, so that's your second project. What's the name of that one?
Donald Patz:
That's called Meritana Vineyards.
Doug Shafer:
Got it.
Donald Patz:
Meritana. So I-
Doug Shafer:
So the label will say Meritana? That's gonna be good.
Donald Patz:
It does, yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Okay. Got it.
Donald Patz:
And strangely enough, the Secret Door actually says Secret Door on it too (laughs).
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) You know, that's what I like about you. You really know what you're doing. You're a consistent guy. That's good.
Donald Patz:
Super, super consistent.
Doug Shafer:
You, you must have, you probably got s- you probably have a sales background, don't you? I bet you do.
Donald Patz:
I might (laughs).
Doug Shafer:
Yeah. Yeah.
Donald Patz:
I might.
Doug Shafer:
All Right. That's two. You said you got three. What else do you have? (laughs).
Donald Patz:
Yeah, I do. And so by, you know, by the, by basically the st of June of , I had both of these sort of roughed out.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
I knew where the grapes were coming from. And, um, I knew where I was gonna make the wines and, uh, I had a plan for each of those. And so I was curious because a friend of mine was at the, um, Aspen Food and Wine. And I, I was basically asking him “How is it? Is it going well this year? Or are you, um, you know, seeing the right kind of people?” Things like that. Uh, and so we had a very short conversation about that. He, he, he kinda convinced me, I didn't need to go, but, um, but I was gonna thi- continue to think about it. And sort of at the very end, sort of a throwaway moment, he says, "Oh, and by the way, I'm sitting here at the bar in Aspen with Francoise Villard from the Northern Rhone Valley and he's talking about doing another, um, California project, would you be interested?"
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
And I said, "I just kinda came out of a partnership. So I'm not really excited about starting another partnership. But you know what, look, have him come to California, we'll go see vineyards together. And if we like each other enough, we, we can, you know, talk about it." And so, uh, sure enough, he came out in August of . We went to see some vineyards and decided we were, we were gonna make, um, a Rhone style, California wine, uh, from, um, a vineyard up in Mendocino that I bought chardonnay and pinot from for years called Alder Springs Vineyard.
Doug Shafer:
Right, right.
Donald Patz:
And, and, uh, and so for me, um, this s- this site is really good for chardonnay and pinot, but I think it's maybe even better for these, these Rhone varieties. It's an amazing site at elevation with, um, with the crazy grower who, who will pretty much do anything as necessary in order to create fantastic wines. So I thought we'd probably do Viognier and, um, and syrah probably.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Donald Patz:
But, um, Francoise and I went up there together and he starts running up and down the rows of Marsanne and Roussanne, and I'm like, oh my God.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
is there a more difficult cluster of grapes to figure out how to sell then a combination of Marsanne and Roussanne? This is nuts. What are we doing?
Doug Shafer:
Yeah, yeah.
Donald Patz:
But it's actually turned out to go pretty well. I think I'm actually selling a little bit more white than I am syrah right now (laughs).
Doug Shafer:
That's great.
Donald Patz:
But we did a blend, we did a blend.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Donald Patz:
So we were doing Marsanne and Roussanne blend in . And then in , we added Picpoule blanc and Viognier to the, to the mix in small amounts. And, uh, the combination we call cepage d’or or grapes of gold or golden grapes, whatever you want to call it-
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Donald Patz:
... however you want to translate that. But, um, yeah, fermented separately, and then the blend comes together, um, usually a few months before bottling.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Donald Patz:
Um, but I really l- I'm kind of shocked at how, how much I like drinking that white wine that a blend. Not something I originally thought I was gonna really love, but, but it's tur- I find myself sort of grabbing a bottle more frequently than I ever imagined. And then syrah, I mean, you do a syrah, petite sirah blend. Right?
Doug Shafer:
Right. Right.
Donald Patz:
Which sounds like a great idea to me too but, um, my, my French partner is all about % syrah, so we're, that's what we're doing. Uh, and again, at elevation, it's extraordinary sight. So yeah, the wines have turned out beautifully.
Doug Shafer:
Great. And the name for that one is? That third project?
Donald Patz:
So I started ... I wanted to use the word Terminus because, I had some reasons for it. It's the Roman God of borders and boundaries, but somebody else had already used that. Um, although they weren't apparently currently making any or bottling any wine under that label, I just didn't wanna get in, into, you know, trademark war. So I changed it a little bit to Terminim. Sou- still sounds sort of Lat- so not U-M at the end, it's I-M. Terminim, I guess-
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Donald Patz:
... which, um, for me says a couple of things. First of all, three projects is kind of the border. I mean, this is, as far as I'm willing to go.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs).
Donald Patz:
I'm not gonna do four or five or projects. Three is plenty. Um, also driving to Northern Mendocino County is kind of a long way away. So I'm drawing the border of where I'm willing to go (laughs) at the edge of that vineyard.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) That's a long haul. What is it? Five-hour drive?
Donald Patz:
It's a long, long, long drive.
Doug Shafer:
It's a long drive.
Donald Patz:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Windy roads.
Donald Patz:
So, but, um, and also because the grape varieties are coming from the Rhone Valley and I had listened to a couple of podcasts on the Roman Empire and I, I didn't realize as I lo, I'm not really sure why I, I didn't. I didn't realize how important the Rhone Valley was actually to the overall Roman Empire.
Doug Shafer:
Hm.
Donald Patz:
For a lot of reasons, it was a source of not just wine, but all kinds of agricultural products and to be a- be able to run up and down that river with goods and, um, you know, uh, grain and-
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Donald Patz:
... wine and all kinds of stuff was an en- and enormous benefit. So, um, there is a long history of, uh, influence in the, in the Rhone Valley from the Roman Empire. In fact, I've heard of people like plowing their vineyards and suddenly, you know, like a statue head occurs in the middle of their vineyard just got s-
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) Something from the Rhone -
Donald Patz:
... spit up by the earth. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
That's wild.
Donald Patz:
I was walking down this little, um, alleyway basically with all this cobble rock wall, um, you know, sort of rounded rocks and, and right in the middle of, it was a hunk of marble. I thought, that's not a local rock.
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Donald Patz:
That almost certainly was brought here by the Romans. And so the, the background of the label includes, um, a sort of, a sort of a semi marbleized character that indicate that sort of Roman presence. And it's sort of, and, you know, sort of evocative of, of, uh, a different time and place-
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Donald Patz:
... but it's California and we want these to be California wines. They're not supposed to be like wanna be Rom- uh, Rhone wines. They're, they really are California wines that we, that we really like.
Doug Shafer:
Nice, nice. So where are you gu- where are you making the wines? You're making them all in the same place?
Donald Patz:
No. You know, I really w- part of it was, I wanted to be able to separate cabernet from the chardonnay and pinot project.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Donald Patz:
And, um, because it's a different mindset. And, you know, the guys in c- in the Napa Valley are really used to doing Napa Valley cabernet-
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Donald Patz:
... where in Sonoma they're good at winemaking, but, you know, slightly different mindset. Um, and vice versa. You know, I wanted to do, um, Russian River pinot noir and chardonnay in a particular style that probably is quite different from a lot of Calif- Napa Valley people.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Donald Patz:
Um, and so I, I separated them on purpose. And so I'm making the cabernet again, custom crush, sort of the way we started Patz and Hall, um, in Calistoga had a winery there called Envy Winery and the chardonnay and pinot project now at, um, Grand Cru Custom Crush in Windsor, and they have been fantastic with chardonnay and pinot noir for me. And so I write the work orders and oversee it, but they've got the teams in place to run to, you know, to actually do the work.
Doug Shafer:
You got it going. So you got three new projects, you got a lot going on and just, I'm a little bit scared to ask you got anything else going on, anything new I should know about?
Donald Patz:
Uh, no (laughs).
Doug Shafer:
(laughs). Okay, good, good, good.
Donald Patz:
You know, just, just living the life, man. I mean, you know, like I, I'm leaving tomorrow to go down to Southern California to see my mom who is years old now. And, um, I'm glad to still have her with us. Uh, but she's had some health problems recently. So, um, you know, you worry about all kinds of s- other stuff. It's, uh, it's, as you well know, r- um, doing wine and running a wine businesses is a- is really all consuming. It's not just a, you know, roll into work at o'clock and think about leaving at :. Even if you want to, it just won't let you.
Doug Shafer:
No, yeah.
Donald Patz:
And, and you know, so I'm in that same situation, I'm super busy with all kinds of stuff, but at the same time, I think you have to, you have to have time for family stuff as well.
Doug Shafer:
Good. Well, I'm glad you're going down to see her, but, uh, so these three new projects-
Donald Patz:
(laughs).
Doug Shafer:
... how do people get ahold of them? How do they find these new wines? You know, they're, everybody knows about Patz and Hall-
Donald Patz:
Well, there-
Doug Shafer:
... but that's, that's that's history now. What, uh, the new stuff, how'd they find it?
Donald Patz:
Yeah. You can ... um, if you do a Google search on Donald Patz, my new stuff all pops up. So I have a, I have several websites. I've g- the, the one probably to start from is donaldpatzwinegroup.com.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Donald Patz:
Donaldpatzwinegroup.com. Um, or they can email me at, um, donald@donaldpatzwinegroup.com (laughs), um, and I'll be happy to give them additional information, but, uh, each of, each, each wine project has its own website too. So there's one for Meritana Vineyards, there's one for Secret Door Wines and there's one for Terminim Wines.
Doug Shafer:
Good. Lots of options. Lots of ways to go. And I want to try the, uh, the new white wine. So, um, can you bring a bottle of lunch sometime, you know, when we can get back to having lunch, please?
Donald Patz:
Yeah. I think so. Yeah. It's time to start that again. I'm really glad that you brought that up because, um, I think you owe me lunch this time.
Doug Shafer:
I do owe you lunch.
Donald Patz:
(laughs).
Doug Shafer:
And I'll, I'll bring a bottle of cabernet just to show you how you really make it. Oh God, did I really say that?
Donald Patz:
I'm sure that you will ... I'm sure you will try.
Doug Shafer:
Just to sh- just to show you how Elias makes it. There you go (laughs).
Donald Patz:
(laughs).
Doug Shafer:
All right, man. Donald so good to hear your voice and catch up with you and, uh, thanks for sharing your story.
Donald Patz:
Yeah. It's really fun. I'm glad that you c- I'm glad that we got in touch two years later (laughs) to do this.
Doug Shafer:
(laughs) All right. All right. I'm buying lunch. I'm buying lunch.
Donald Patz:
No, no, it's great, it's great to be able to chat with you about it too. And, 'cause we haven't had a chance to really talk about all of this stuff one-on-one. So it was fun to do it today. I felt like we were just having you and me have a con- a conference and uh, and let's, let's cl- include some other people and let them hear about it today too.
Doug Shafer:
We will, we will.
Donald Patz:
And thank you again for the opportunity.
Doug Shafer:
You bet, buddy. Great talking to you. Be good. Safe travels.
Donald Patz:
Thank you.
Doug Shafer:
All right. See ya. Bye.
Donald Patz:
Bye.