Full Transcript
Doug Shafer:
Hey everybody, Doug Shafer here. Welcome back for another episode of The Taste. Uh, today we've got a longtime friend and an awesome winemaker, especially with Pinot Noir and Syrah, Adam Lee. Adam, welcome.
Adam Lee:
Thanks, Doug. It's good to be here.
Doug Shafer:
It's, uh, before we get going, you, uh, I've got to tell the story. So it's the late '80s, early '90s. I'm, uh, here at Shafer, I'm out on the road selling wine which basically is I'm, in some sales reps car. Going around to accounts retail stores restaurants meeting the buyer, pouring the wine, telling the story, trying to make some sales. And I'm in Austin, Texas I met this great local, great shop called the Austin Wines, Austin Wines and Spirits I think it was called. Still there to this day, it is the place in town. I'm there in the shop waiting with my rep, waiting for the buyer who's out there in the back room with another winemaker. And, uh, so there's this guy behind the, behind the counter, working in the counter and we start chit chatting. And is this young kid and he's like, "Man, I really, man, you make wine?" I said, "Yeah, I make wine." He goes, "Man, I want to do that." I said, "Well, let's do it. Go, go do it." He goes, "How do I do it? What do I do? Do I got to go to school?" I said, "My recollection..." Adam you might disagree is, I, I t-think I just said, "Just go out and, go out to Napa, Sonoma and get a cellar job, you'd learn on the job. You can do it." And you were like, it was you. (laughs). You were like, "Okay, I'll do that." And I didn't think anything of it. And two or three or four years go by and next thing I know, I'm reading about Adam Lee and Siduri wines. And I'd like go, "I know that kid. He was in that store in Texas, in Austin years ago." That's, uh, so that's where we first met, as I recollect.
Adam Lee:
That was the day that you were allocating Merlot, I remember that. That was (laughs), the big thing. That was the, the hot Shafer wine was the Merlot.
Doug Shafer:
That what, that's true. That's the Merlot era. That's true. But, uh, is in my, is my memory right on that one? That's how it happened?
Adam Lee:
It's comp, it's completely correct. Yes. You told me to just go for it, give it a shot, and come on out. And it's kind of what I did. I didn't end up getting the cellar job. But I followed that path of, of believing that you could take that chance and move out. And, you, you know, go west young man, to quote my old history, uh, professor. And, and I came out and took the chance.
Doug Shafer:
Its, I love it. I love it, because I've had that chat with many, many people through the years. And as far as I know, you're the only one that made it happen. So congratulations, my friend.
Adam Lee:
I, I appreciate that. You know, one of the things that was... A-a-and I still think is fantastic about this business, is how encouraging people are to people who really do want to pursue that dream. I mean, I'm sure you have harvest interns there. You-you've had interns and th-these people want to come and work and be part of something that we're fortunate to be part of. And I, I, I think people are open, winemakers are open, winery owners are open to sharing information, a-and, and, uh, encouraging the new generation.
Doug Shafer:
It's fun, because, uh, anyone who wants to get into it, usually they've got a lot of passion for it and are compassionate about it. And, uh, being around people with passion, um, is, is, is, uh, is an upper. It's great. I mean, it just, it gets us, it kind of gets me recharged when, when that happens with young kids. So it's, it's always fun. But speaking to young kids, let's talk about your story. Talk to me. Where'd you grow up? Let's go all the way back.
Adam Lee:
Sure. So I grew up in Austin, Texas. I was born in 1964. I was adopted when I was seven days old by two older Southern Baptist parents who didn't drink.
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs)
Adam Lee:
So consequently, I didn't drink until I got to college. Uh, I mean, I guess consequently, a lot of people drink even though their parents didn't drink. I managed not too until I went away to San Antonio, Texas to Trinity University, a small, uh, liberal arts school. I studied French history and I specialized in the comparative history of the French and American prison systems.
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs)
Adam Lee:
And that did not lead to a job after college somehow.
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
Adam Lee:
Uh, but, yeah, I know, it was pretty esoteric... People, I, I heard of this professor, he's actually know a very good customer. He said at Pomona, he's a dean down there. But he, um, told me that if I wrote about Robespierre's role in the French Revolution, everything that could be written about it had been written about it. So find something obscure to write about and maybe I could get published and get into graduate school. And I went just about as obscure as you could go. But I didn't go to graduate school and that's all because my junior year in college, I met this young lady who was a senior and she got a job after college out in Walnut Creek, California, working for Chevron. And I spent the summer between my junior and senior years out with her going wine tasting and fell in love with, uh, with wine. And really decided that I wanted to get, uh, come back and get involved in the, uh, in the wine business once I graduated. So I got a job working at, at that wine retail store in Austin.
Doug Shafer:
So that's how it happened? I was going to ask you. Because you know when did the wine thing kick in? Um, I, I was aware that you know, your folks, you know, were Baptist. You guys didn't drink. But, uh, so the wine thing didn't really happen in college. It happened afterwards. That's what you're telling.
Adam Lee:
It, it, yeah, that junior year. I mean-
Doug Shafer:
Yeah.
Adam Lee:
... I remember things like we would take, um, that summer, uh, uh, Chateau Ste. Michelle Riesling to Stern Grove Park. I, I mean, we were looking for sweeter white wines at the time. But I discovered this one place that we used to love to picnic and it was overlooking vines and a river, and the first red wine I ever fell in love with, uh, of any sort was the '84 Rochioli Pinot Noir. And that, um, I mean, Rochioli is obviously still one of California's great Pinot Noir producers. A-and basically, I jokingly tell people, um, the love, uh, with the girl didn't last but the love with Pinot Noir did.
Doug Shafer:
Well, I was gonna say that's another question but you're way ahead of me. I was gonna ask-
Adam Lee:
Yeah. (Laughs).
Doug Shafer:
What, you know, because you've been all about Pinot Noir, I was, I was curious about where that kicked in. So it was, it was that first bottle. So if that would have been a bottle of Cabernet, you could have been Cab maybe or not?
Adam Lee:
It coulda, it could have been Cab. (laughs). As a Texan you got, you gotta be kidding me. Of course, it could have been Cabernet. I think Texans got to make up, you know, a good quarter of your mailing list or something like that.
Doug Shafer:
That's true. We sell a lot of wine, we sell a lot of Cabernet in Texas. That's a true statement. How's Pinot Noir in Texas? It's probably okay.
Adam Lee:
Um, yeah, Pinot is good. You know it, uh, I always think of Texas kind of as, as three very distinct markets. Um, you-you've got Austin who always wants to be very, very cutting edge. And so when Pinot became popular, Pinot was no longer popular in Austin, and they started looking for Gruner or something really unusual. Uh, then Houston where they're kind of right on, uh, what's, what's happening, what's, what's popular at the moment. And so you see, Pinot doing very, very well there. And then Dallas is a lot of old oil money kind of thing. Um, and, uh, they have, they, they stick with some of the truly great traditional wines of the world and they sell a lot of Cabernet in Dallas.
Doug Shafer:
All right. So you fell in love with wine, the, the, the girl thing didn't work. The wine thing did. You go back, you finished college. But, so senior year, you're like, I'm, I'm going to, I'm going to do this wine thing. Is that where your head was at, do you think? Adam Lee:7 Yeah, I talked about graduate school, I considered the possibilities. Um, I'd looked, uh, and really thought, okay, I'll just take a year off and work in this wine store. I started going to wine tastings, uh, a-at the shop. It was a gentleman named Sam Kindred, Sam owned the stores. And, uh, he would put on the tastings. And Sam was brilliant. But he was always fairly disorganized. And so he would show up late for the tastings that he was putting on. Juggling glasses and the wine samples and he would come to me and say, "Adam, I will comp you the tasting, if you'll help me get it set up in a hurry." (laughs). And as a young kid with no money, I was like, "Sure." And I did that. And he eventually said, "Adam, you know how to, you seem responsible. You show up on time. I think you can do basic, uh, bookkeeping. So I would like to hire you as an assistant manager of a wine store."
Doug Shafer:
Did Sam, uh, I know Sam, I knew Sam Kindred well. He was a wonderful guy. Did he, did he own that store, Austin Wines Spirits?
Adam Lee:
He did.
Doug Shafer:
Okay. Okay.
Adam Lee:
There were three of them. So there was, yeah, there were three of them. And one of them, um, was John, uh, is owned, was owned by, uh, managed by a guy named John Rennick, who Johnny owns Austin Wine Merchant now.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Adam Lee:
But yeah, Sam was the owner of the three stores.
Doug Shafer:
Got it. Got it. Because then Sam, I think when he got out of that, he started working for a distributor. And I, I remember riding around calling on accounts with him. That's how I met a lot of people.
Adam Lee:
That is correct. Yeah. Doug Shafer:8 Yeah. Wonderful guy. Yeah, he was a little bit disorganized. (Laughs). I do remember that. Um, all right. So you're, you're working in a wine shop. You're there in Austin for what? A couple years? How long that, how long were you there? Adam Lee:9: Yeah, I was, you know, that was a time, uh, where the opportunities to learn about wine were, were huge. Uh, we had, we were the local Les Amis du Vin chapter. So that allowed us, we put on tastings frequently. Uh, we, uh, you know, the, the vintages with California Cab, '84, '85, '86. With Bordeaux '85 and '86. '85 Burgundy's, uh, we brought in the wines from Marco Degrassi, of the German wines from Terri Theiss. There was just, uh, a string of absolutely incredible wines that were available to taste, I, I was able to, to sample and learn about these wines. And I think, uh, it only just spurred a greater, greater love for me for wine, in general. And, um, eventually I moved up to managing one of the stores. I, I also would work interestingly enough, on Friday and Saturday nights in a restaurant on the floor, in exchange for free dinners on Sunday and Tuesday nights. And I would work selling wine. And it was a restaurant called Jambalaya owned by a guy that I know, you know, uh, Leon Cikota.
Doug Shafer:
1 Leon. That was Leon's place. Yeah. (Laughs)
Adam Lee:
1 Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
1 I didn't, I did not know this. L-Leon's a wonderful guy, is our distributor guy now. But he, he'd started out in the restaurant businesses in Austin. That's how I first met him. He was just leaving that. But I didn't know you were hooked up with Leon in those days. How funny. That's great.
Adam Lee:
1 Oh, and it was such a blast and so amazing. And, and, um, it, it was a great opportunity. Like I would have free dinners on Sunday night. And if you know you're a young single guy, and you bring a date into the restaurant. And Leon, Leon The reason he's a great distributor is because he's, well, to put it mildly, he's a kiss ass, he's good at it.
Doug Shafer:
11: Yeah.
Adam Lee:
11: I mean, that's what you need in a distributor, sometimes. It's somebody who gets out there and sell stuff. And he, um, he would say things, ‘Oh, Mr. Lee, it's so good to see you again. (Laughs) And what a wonderful young woman you have with you. What do you like your usual table in the corner?’
Doug Shafer:
11 Oh -
Adam Lee:
11 Yeah, it worked out very well. Yeah. worked out well for a single guy at the time.
Doug Shafer:
11 We, we call Leon, we, he's a sweet talking Charlie, which is a compliment. I love it. So you're there you're doing that. Um, now, A-Austin's really close to Texas Hill Country some great pla, a great area to grow grapes and make wine. Were you, were you running around out there.
Adam Lee:
11 I did, I went out. Um, I still remember that one of the greatest bottles of wine that I've had. I mean, even we can go through and we can name the most of these memorable bottles. You know, you had this old Margaux or you have this old Hillside Select or you have whatever. I mean th-these fantastic bottles. But I remember the first time I really spent any serious time with a winery owner, winemaker was out at Fall Creek winery out in the hill country. And Ed Auler was the owner of that winery, and we're walking through the vineyards and it's hot. It's Texas hot, obviously. And he has a backpack on and he pulls out from the backpack a bottle of Rosè, a white Zinfandel, probably even that he had kept chilled and he just pops the top on it and we pass it back and forth. Drinking it out of the bottle, um, walking through the vines. And (laughs) to, to this day, I, I, it's something that I've long been convinced of. And I mean that really put it in my mind, was great bottles of wine. 12 I mean, you want the wine to be of quality. You don't want it to be flawed. But it's about who you're with and the experience and, and that whole thing. And sitting there from my first time really to spend that much time with a winemaker and winery owner in the vineyards, walking the vines and having that bottle. That bottle still stands out in my mind.
Doug Shafer:
12 Uh, that's great. That's a great story. Hook, hook and hook and Rosè right out of the bottle. I like that. Um, so are, so we're kind of jump into a quick question. Did you ever think about making wine in Texas?
Adam Lee:
13: Uh, you know, I, uh, um, did not at the time. I really didn't see it at, at that moment as being something that was going to, um, to take off. Obviously, I've been wrong about that. Texas wines have done very, very well. Uh, but I, um, I really just thought California was the place. And that time where I spent that little bit of time out between my junior and senior years. I really fell in love with it out here in California.
Doug Shafer:
13 Got it. So that's what, that was the idea. So I think you, you did, you moved up to Dallas, you had a stent up there, right?
Adam Lee:
1 I did. I, I, so I briefly worked in line wholesale and did very poorly at that. Uh, that was not for me going around. There's a lot more of rejection. When you work in wine retail, the people who walked in the door all, uh, want to see you. They all want to buy wine, it's pretty easy when you are a wholesaler, uh, distributor and you're pulling a bag and you walk in. Um, a lot of times that people don't want to see you at all. They don't have the money to spend or you know you're there, you gotta collect a cheque at the time or whatever. So I, I didn't do very well at that. But then one of the places I was calling on, was Neiman Marcus department stores up in Dallas. And Neiman's had a gentleman, a wine buyer named Mike Friend, but they needed another person to be the, uh, second buyer, second person to work the wind department. So I knew they had an opening. I was not very happy working as a distributor. Um, and I decided to, um, give it a shot and to go work at Neiman's, which was a fantastic place to work. You don't really think of Neiman's these days as having wine, but they had a great clientele and an absolutely fantastic selection of wines.
Doug Shafer:
14 Oh yeah, I do remember those, the programs they had, great wines and, and great customers, you know. Happy to spend the money and, you know, learn more about wine. So-
Adam Lee:
14 I, I had a customer one time, he, he was like ‘I know Bordeaux well, but I don't really know Burgundy. And I think '88, '89 and '90 are supposed to be good years, Adam, can you put together like 40 or $50,000 worth of wine for me?’ And y-you mean that's in, those kinds of dollars back at the time. And y-you know things like that would happened. I was like, "Oh my gosh, yes, I can do that for you."
Doug Shafer:
15 (Laughs) I love it. So what, uh, what happened up in Dallas? What, and then because the next stop was California, but a few things happened, I'm sure.
Adam Lee:
15 Y-yeah, a few, a few things happened in Dallas. So I, I always had really in my mind this idea of let me move out to California. Let me get back out there and be involved in, in the wine world out here. Um, I met a young lady, Diana Novy. Diana was the, uh, one of the food buyers there in the epicure department and we started dating. And we ended up really deciding to some extent to move out to California together. I was ahead of her. And my idea at the time was, yeah, maybe make some wine but I was also thinking about being a wine writer as much as anything. And I, um, I moved out a few months before she did and then she followed suit. Um, and, uh, we came out here. I was, started writing a wine newsletter called Vintages, Vines and Wines. And, um, tasting wines, reviewing wines, but, uh, we decided that if we were going t-to pursue this wine newsletter thing, we should try making a little bit of wine. And we were working at a tasting room in Dry Creek Valley. And they, we decided let's try making a little bit of wine and Pinot was what we wanted to make.
Doug Shafer:
1 Where were you guys working?
Adam Lee:
1 Uh, Lambert Bridge.
Doug Shafer:
1 Okay, okay.
Adam Lee:
1 Small, very hands on, uh, you know how with small wineries and when wineries are really trying to build. Uh, everybody, it's a team. And you work together a-and, um, that's, that was the feeling of that place. It was, it was pretty special.
Doug Shafer:
17: Got it. So you're working there, you guys were in the cellar or in, uh, hospitality?
Adam Lee:
17: Taste, taste, hospitality, tasting room. Uh, you do a little bit of everything at a place like that. But we, uh, were mainly tasting room but, uh, we didn't really have anybody to deal with distributors. So I would entertain, uh, distributors if, if we were trying to court some people there. Uh, whatever was, was needed, you end up doing it. You clean the bathrooms, you do that. It's anything and everything you have to do, um, you, you jump in and do it. And, uh, yeah, decided, um, we pulled together our, our cash and we had $24,000 total. And, uh, thought that it might be fun trying to make a little bit of wine and we really wanted to make Pinot Noir. So we put an ad in a publication called Wine Country Classifieds looking for grapes and for, had like for, uh, for Pinot grapes and had four different people respond. And we ultimately ended up buying an acres worth of grapes up in the Anderson Valley.
Doug Shafer:
18: Okay, this is crazy. I've never heard this story this is really fun. So you got, I mean you're just scratching this out. So you, you, you buy it so an acre worth the grape is what a few tons? Worth three or four tons?
Adam Lee:
18 Uh, yeah, at that time. So the reason we wanted to buy the acre was that, we had read that Pinot Noir was, um, very susceptible to yields. If you, if you have too much crop out there that the quality is not particularly good and so we wanted to work in the vineyard ourselves. So we purchased the acre we paid a set price ahead of time for that acre, uh, if that allowed us the right to go out there and do the shoot thinning, the leaf pulling and the dropping of crop ourselves.
Doug Shafer:
1 Oh really? That's kind of cool.
Adam Lee:
18 Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
18 Okay. You're way ahead of the curve here on quality. Good for you. So you guys together, now you married at this point?
Adam Lee:
18 Uh, we got married, engaged right before the '94 harvest.
Doug Shafer:
19: Okay.
Adam Lee:
19: And that was our first harvest. So we got engaged in September and the harvest '94, was a fairly late year in Anderson Valley we didn't pick till early October.
Doug Shafer:
1 Okay. So here's t-the thing I was going crazy the other night looking at my notes with you. Where were you making the wine? Where would you start and through the years where have you made the wine?
Adam Lee:
1 Yeah. So Lambert Bridge allowed us to make the wine there that first year. I think they thought it was kind of cute and didn't really expect much to come of it. And, uh, we ended up making 107 cases, four and a half barrels, out of that one acres worth of grapes that year. Uh, the next, and at some point... Um, well basically what happened is, we ended up getting some decent press on that thought it might be a little bit of a conflict. So we moved the next three years to DeLorimier winery in, uh, over an Alexander Valley. And they, uh, under a real custom crush arrangement. I mean Lambert Bridge allowed us to do it for next to nothing at the time. Doug Shafer:0: Right. Adam Lee:0: I mean, we were working there was kind of a perk of working, uh, there. Um, so '95, '96, '97 was at DeLorimier. And then in '98, We leased a warehouse in a fairly industrial part of Santa Rosa and, um, set it up as our own facility.
Doug Shafer:
That's cool. And this was the, this was the beginning of Siduri. Your brand with, with Diana.
Adam Lee:
That is correct. Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
So '94 is the first vintage. So, okay, so you've got your warehouse. So how long, when did you guys, um, stop working at Lambert Bridge and go full time with Siduri.
Adam Lee:
So, basically, what ended up happening was we, um, it was maybe the spring of '95. We had the wine and barrel. We thought it was good. We had a number of friends that would taste it. Uh, and they would tell us it was good, but y-your friends are going to be nice to you. (Laughs). And, um, yeah, really in hopes of getting some free wine.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Adam Lee:
Basically, they would be nice. Yep. And, uh, uh, we heard one day, we'd been drinking with some customers. That was one of the advantages, sometimes of a small place too. You would taste with the customers and occasionally you would drink with the customers. And we were drinking with the customers that day. And a fax came in from the Wine Advocate saying that, Robert Parker was staying over at Meadow Wood. And, uh, we and was looking for samples. He was out for a ZAP event. And we went home opened another bottle of wine that led us to think that maybe Parker would like to try our wines. So we drove up to Lambert Bridge pulled a sample out of the four and a half barrels hand bottled it. Put a little Avery white label on it. Did a handwritten note about the wine and drove it over to Meadowwood left it with the concierge there and drove back over the hill. Actually, we stopped and had dinner at a restaurant called Trilogy, that used to exist in St. Helena and we drove back over the hill. 2: And, uh, the next morning had one of those kind of fuzzy, what did we do last night moments. And then we were like, "Oh crap, we left a sample for Parker." And thought we were gonna get some horrible, horrible rating on it. We actually called, uh, Meadowood went and talked to the concierge and asked about getting it back, but it was too late. And, uh, fortunately, three weeks or so after that. Um, Parker left a message on the answering machine saying, he thought the wine was terrific. But he'd lost all the notes on it. And about six weeks after that, the issue of the Wine Advocate came out and it was one of their top 10 Pinots that year. And he printed our phone number, which was our home phone number. We didn't even have a business line setup. (Laughs). And, and that's, that's kind of where Siduri became known. And, uh, where we were like, this could be a real thing. I mean, it went quickly from, this is kind of fun to, uh, wow, our door has been open for us. What do we do about this now?
Doug Shafer:
Well, that's what, that's what's fascinating. Because y-you guys are pretty unique. I mean, that was my recollection. All of a sudden, it's like, Siduri was all over the place. And I was like who is this? And then it's like, wait a minute. I know this kid, he used to sell wine in Austin, Texas. And it happened really fast. It must have been kind of crazy for you guys. Going from like nothing to 60 miles an hour really fast.
Adam Lee:
Uh, very much so. Things, uh, I mean, y-you can talk and we can talk about how it got crazy as far as is making wine and that kind of thing. But truly running a business, running a wine business. Uh, how to, how to make that work was something that neither one of us had. I mean, we had some experience having worked at Neiman's and then worked at a, a another, uh, worked at Austin Wine and Spirits. But for setting it up, setting up that process. And alcohol is regulated in ways that other things aren't. In dealing, jumping through all of those hoops. A lot of stuff here that, uh, we just didn't have any experience on it. And we had to play catch up to some extent.
Doug Shafer:
Well, of, you bet. And so that's, that you got that going on. But here's another thing I, I have got to ask you. Where'd you learn how to make wine?
Adam Lee:
Well-
Doug Shafer:
How did that happened?
Adam Lee:
Yeah, it's a, it's a, good, good question. And really, it's from a lot of people. Including people like you, Doug, who were willing to answer questions for us. Where we would go and I remember talking to Tom Rochioli and, um, tasting, um, barrel tasting with him and asking him questions. And then him telling me about these guys down the street Burt and Ed at Williams Selyem winery, and I needed to go down there. And I went down and, and, uh, talk to them. Reginald Oliver at El Molino, out there over in Napa.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Adam Lee:
People like that, we're very, very open at sharing, uh, information. And I, I think really our belief, uh, started at with that you need to get great grapes to begin with. The-the-there's no, uh, going around that to some extent. You, you had to get the best grapes. So we purchase the grapes by the acre. We read all we could and talk to people all we could about farming and, um, spending time out in the vineyards. Uh, and then to a large extent we let the wine make itself. And I, I mean that sounds very cliched, and I know people talk about that. We really had to do it because we didn't know what to do. So to a large extent, wine did make itself. I actually think making wine is fairly easy. It's stopping for, it's stopping it from becoming vinegar. (laughs). That's the hard part.
Doug Shafer:
That's true. That's a good point. Um, well, I gotta tell you, um, thanks for sharing that. Because to me, it's just fascinating, you know. You know, I mean, you guys took a path that was just so cool. Where you, did it yourselves seat of your pants. You know, you didn't do that Fresno State UC Davis thing. You didn't work in a cellar as an assistant winemaker, a cellar rack. You just did it. I mean, it's just fascinating. And it's, um, you don't hear many people getting to the quality point you guys got with Siduri wines in this manner. And I, I gotta hand it to you. I mean, my, I, just congratulations. It's really, really, it's a great story. It's really cool.
Adam Lee:
I took a one day course at Davis on doing lab work. (Laughs) Thinking maybe that could, maybe that could take, save us some money. And there's some point where you are measuring acidity, titratable acidity, and it requires looking at a color shift in red wine, and I am partially colorblind. And so in the middle of this, where the teacher is telling me can't you see this, and I can't. And I realized I just lost $350 on the UC Davis class that (laughs) I can't even benefit from. That was kind of like, "Huh, I think that's my class. I've done one. And I think I'm done."
Doug Shafer:
That's good. Well, you know, you're making wine. You're making wine with your senses. But I'm gonna roll back to something you said earlier, because I think it's really important. Um, it's so important to get the quality of fruit and the location and, you know, great grapes to be able to make great wines. And that leads to the next question I've got up with you is, you've been making wine all over the place and I, I want you to speak to this and tell the story how this happened. Because I think, I think you've made wine from Santa Barbara all the way up to Willamette Valley in Oregon. And you know, harvest is kind of the same window four or five, six weeks every year. And you're making wines, I don't know you know, the mileage down all these vineyards. I, I, I love you, man. But I've never understood how the heck do you do this? I mean, you know, you gotta be running around like an idiot. I mean, how do you... First of all, why to do it? And then how to do it? Because you did for years. So tell me all about that. Adam Lee:7 Yeah, so I would love to say that we had a great plan as to making it come true. That okay, this was an idea, uh, that it was something I came to. I-it turned out to be this way. It turned out to be something I can do. What, like maybe your stockbroker would tell you, which is your financial advisor, invest in stocks and bonds and this and that. And you know, it diversify your risk to some extent. And that worked out pretty well for us. But that wasn't a plan. We didn't plan that out at all. Honestly, what happened was the general manager at Lambert Bridge had purchased some land up in Oregon. And, uh, planted it to Pinot wasn't sure what he was going to do with it. He his in laws lived up there. And he saw the way we made Pinot that first year and asked us would you be interested in getting some fruit from Oregon? And we rather naively said, "Sure, let's let's go for it." (Laughs) Oregon, um, 1994, the year prior to us making Oregon Pinot 1994 was a fantastic, fantastic vintage in Oregon. And we naively thought every year, it's got to be that fantastic in Oregon. And then, uh, we started in '95, which was arguably the string, uh, three of the worst vintages in Oregon history, '95, '96, '97. And that was a tough beginning with, with Oregon. Uh, we had in '95. 9 Um, we reached out in David Hirsch, um, talked to us out on the Sonoma coast. And David always told us stories about how he had been getting some really great, um, press, I mean, fairly early on. But the wines have been well received from some very, very famous winemakers. But he wanted to see, was it the winemakers or was it the quality of his grapes that made the wines, uh, perform very well. And so he sold to us because he knew he didn't know what we were doing. (Laughs) And so that could, um, he could then judge whether or not, um, it was the quality of the winemaking or the quality of the grapes. And so that's how we got into the Hirsch vineyard, um, in 1997. Gary Pisoni in the Santa Lucia Highlands, he tried our wines at a place called the Cheese Shop down in Carmel. Fantastic- Doug Shafer:0: Still. Adam Lee:0: ... wine store- Doug Shafer:0: And yeah. Adam Lee:0: Oh yeah, absolutely incredible place. And he tried our wines there and thought they were fantastic. And called us up and said he would like to sell us grapes. So there wasn't a plan for this. Uh, but it turned out to be something that we loved Pinot Noir and in still to this day love Pinot and love the expressions of Pinot and all sorts of different places.
Doug Shafer:
Well, you, you did it and I, I tell me about typically how, how would you get through a harvest?
Adam Lee:
I mean, the logistics, the logistics were really, really difficult. So I would leave to go check on vineyards, I would leave at about 3:00, 30 in the morning, and drive down to Monterey to the Santa Lucia Highlands. Uh, on usually on a Saturday morning because there's less traffic. You really just have to worry about getting through the Bay Area.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Adam Lee:
Once you hit Morgan Hill, you're in pretty good shape. Um, I would then, um, check those vineyards at sunrise I would in usually be done sampling crushing them up and tasting the samples with the Franscioni's and Pisoni's by 11. I would then drive down to the Santa Rita Hills, uh, stay the night in Buellton. At the Best Western Andersen split pea soup in there and, uh, living it up. Uh, I would wake up early that morning, sample those vineyards. Uh, drive back up from there listening to Sunday morning NFL games. Get to the Oakland airport, jump on a plane fly up to Oregon. From there, look at the grapes up there. Come back on Monday evening or Tuesday morning and then deal with, um, Sonoma County.
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs) And so and but I, but Diana is got to be, she's by your side.
Adam Lee:
Yeah.
Doug Shafer:
Because I mean-
Adam Lee:
She has definitely divide and conquer, uh, was a big thing. Uh, one of the things that changed our lives, uh, tremendously was in 1999. Uh, we had our first child, son, Christian. And, uh, at that point in time, we split things up a little differently. I dealt mainly with, uh, Monterey, Santa Barbara and Oregon. And she spent more time dealing with, uh, Russian River, So, uh, Sonoma coast, Sonoma mountain fruit.
Doug Shafer:
Makes sense. Makes sense. And so, and you're both, you're both tracking fermentations, I guess. You're just trading off, who's ever around to take care of that. Watching -
Adam Lee:
Completely. And there were other things that happened like we were trying to get in Marcy Keefer for the Keefer Ranch vineyard, a great Pinot vineyard. And we weren't able to get in for a couple of years. And, uh, Marcy really wanted grandchildren. So Diana took Christian out as a young, very, very young child, and let Marcy, uh, a-as Diana is trying to convince her to sell us grapes. And let Marcy hold Christian and shamelessly we used our young son and it worked. Diana managed to get us Keefer Ranch grapes that year after, after bringing Christian out there.
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs). Yeah, it's okay. I, I get that. You know, I've used my kids kind of that way. Not, you know, blatantly that just happened to be having to be there and it, it works.
Adam Lee:
Sure.
Doug Shafer:
It's, you know, it's kids, kids and dogs. Dog, good stuff. Um, all right. Well, thanks for telling me about that. Obviously, just crazy. Uh, my hat's off to you for doing that. And, and covering that much territory. But, but the bottom line is, you were seeking out the best fruit you could find. And-
Adam Lee:
Yeah, we've-
Doug Shafer:
... for Pinots.
Adam Lee:
No doubt. And, and what I've often believed and I, I still to this day, really believe that it's true, is, uh, that wine should have, uh, very unique, very individual character. And as such, some people really loved our Willamette Valley Pinot. But maybe they didn't like our, our Hatcher vineyard as much. Or they liked the Pisoni, but they didn't like the Clos Pepe as much. Uh, if they as long as they didn't tell us it was poorly made. Then if someone just said I like this one better than I like that one. That to me was never a concern. And we definitely developed followers over time for certain vineyards.
Doug Shafer:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Right. It's, uh, no, it's, I see that. In fact, I want to talk about that later. Because I tried a couple those wines, you brought me the other day. Um, but then in '98, you guys launched a new, a new brand called Novy. Talk to me about that.
Adam Lee:
Sure. Uh, so '98 was the first year that we moved into our own facility. And we did a little bit of custom crush for some other wineries because we needed to pay for equipment. Uh, but it was a very small crop year for Pinot that year. And we were wondering, boy, how are we going to fill this place up? How are we going to afford to pay for everything? Uh, and we had a friend who approached us about some Syrah grapes and we decided to make a little bit of Syrah that year. And, um, Novy was Diana's maiden name. It, uh, it meant new. And we thought that was a fun, you know, here's something new let's give it a shot. And, uh, made some Syrah. Got her parents and brothers came in as investors in the winery helped, um, and not large financial investors. And when we started this out in the same 100 and kinda case range, but really, uh, really just began that process of trying to make some other things. Mainly, we focused on Syrah and Zinfandel.
Doug Shafer:
Got it. Got it. That was smart and, uh, was that the, I was curious about that as far as making those varietals under a new brand name as opposed to being part of the Siduri, uh, umbrella. Was there a thought to given to that? Is there a reason.
Adam Lee:
A, a little bit. I mean, at that point in time, a few years in Siduri but, uh, seemed like it was becoming known as a, a Pinot Noir producer. And we wanted to, um, to really maintain that and keep it that way. I think once we decided to involve the family, it became pretty clear that it should be a different interest at that point in time and, and, and a different name. Uh, I think that's the, um, I guess that's one of the interesting things that I'm not sure whether or not we did something good or not. But naming a winery after yourself. Obviously, y'all have done that. But y-you know, there are positives and negatives to that. And when you sell a winery at some point in time, as we later did, um, you're selling away your name.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Adam Lee:
That, that's a little bit of a challenge.
Doug Shafer:
I understand. But the same time on the plus side Siduri, as you said, was known, is known for Pinot Noir. And so keeping that focus, I think, I think in my experience in the marketplace is really important for the consumer. I mean, they, they know what Siduri is all about. It's like, well, Siduri has a Cabernet? They'd be like, what, what's going on? That'd be confusing to the marketplace. So, um, it's like Shafer making a Pinot because every once in a while somebody will float that by me, I go, "Uh, that just doesn't make sense. I know we're Cabernet guys." So, um, you know, it's always a challenge to try to figure out what the, what the right move is. So fast forward. All of a sudden, 2015 speaking of selling, were (laughs) were there. What happened? Adam Lee:7 So, Yes. Well, we had grown the winery... I mean, starting at 107 cases, uh, we ended up being about 25,000 cases. Doug Shafer:7 Okay. Adam Lee:7 Uh, a-at that point in time, it would go up and down one year, 20,000. One year, 30,000. I mean, it seems like big swings, but based on just vintage conditions in certain areas that it could easily go up and down by that much. And, um, it was going really well. Honestly, the wines were selling well. Um, we got approached by, uh, some friends of ours, the, the Benzigers. And we were just talking, I, I knew them well. And we chatted about the possibility and I mentioned some offhand comment about, um, that I didn't know we were talking about what would ever happen. What would you, what do you want to do 20 years from now. And I mentioned something about if we were ever, um, if we ever sold I could see myself doing this or that. And, uh, they came back a few days later and said would you be interested in selling? So we kind of began the process then of pulling our financial stuff together, but not with really any real plan at that point in time of selling and quite frankly, we ultimately called it off. And said we, we brought in a, a broker guy, uh, named Mario Zepponi who sells wineries for a living. We ultimately said no, we don't want to do this. It's harvest time, let's, let's call it quits and, and not do it. And, uh, after harvest, Mario came back to us and said, "Adam, I think there'd be some real interest would you consider letting me shop this around and just see what's out there." And I'm like, "Sure." It won't hurt at all to be shopped around. And it turned out there was some real interest and we had some real, long discussions between Diana and myself as to whether or not this is something we truly wanted to do. Did we want to keep doing what we were doing or did we want to go ahead and sell it? And I, I don't know, Doug. To a, to a large extent it got to the point that, well we ran the winery, I kind of felt like the winery was running us, in some ways more than anything else.
Doug Shafer:
Right.
Adam Lee:
And, uh, didn't have, um, Siduri had become known as someone who made fairly big fairly, rich Pinots wanted different styles. And I kind of felt like maybe, I wasn't sure do we want to go on a different course. And we didn't feel free to do that. So consequently made the decision to a-after we shopped around, um, to sell the winery to, uh, Jackson family. Kendall Jackson, folks.
Doug Shafer:
No, it's great. And, uh, and I think you did... What was the agreement? You stayed on and kept working with them?
Adam Lee:
Yep.
Doug Shafer:
How did that worked out?
Adam Lee:
I did. So there was, um, a three year contract and that was in, um, 2015. And I still consult for them to this day. So I've stayed around. They've been fantastic to deal with. I, they've hired a new Siduri winemaker. A very good friend of mine named Matt, Matt Revlat. He's, he's really fantastic. But, um, I continue to help them out, uh, with some different Pinot projects. Uh, doing some different things. Uh, they, they have vineyard sourcing from Santa Rita all the way up to Oregon. So kind of our, our Pinot, uh, areas dovetail with one another. And we were able to, um, to work together and again, again I continue to consult for them right now.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, that's great. That's, that's really good to hear. Um, that's, that's neat. It's neat so you can stay connected, uh, with that. But also then freedom to do some new things and that's one thing I want to talk to you about. Um, I think it's 2017 you started your Clarice project, correct?
Adam Lee:
Yeah, so, so, yeah, I did. So that, uh, I mean, I, I know that one of the things. I listened to a number of your, I've listened to a number of your, your podcasts here and, I you do a fantastic job. And I was listening to the one with Donald Patz and you were talking to him about, you know, is there any conflict there with-
Doug Shafer:
All right.
Adam Lee:
... you know, you're doing other, uh, other projects. And Jackson's been pretty cool to work with. They basically are, you know, if you don't get too big, we're, we're cool with this. You know, you just do the small stuff hands on. And I kind of wanted to get back to the days where I was the one, uh, they're doing the punch downs. I was the one really making all these, these calls. And, and at some point in Siduri, 30,000 cases you needed to, um, to have a lot of handoff a lot of things to a lot of staff, that type of thing. And I didn't want that any longer. And I kind of had a different vision at that time on the way I wanted to make the wines. The vines I was dealing with had gotten older. That's one of the things i-in the story of California Pinot so many things happened right after Sideways. 2: There were so many new plantings and you saw Pinots being made in fairly big rich, uh, in fact, very big, very rich style. Maybe a little bit too much. So I, I don't think people talk enough about the fact that Sideways came out in the end of 2004 and 2003 and 2004 with the two hottest vintages I ever dealt with for Pinot. And I don't think those wines stylistically, were always what California Pinot Noir i-is best at necessarily. But people tasted them and they were very popular. 2 Uh, I kind of wanted to do something a little different. The vines were leading me in a different way. So I looked at two vineyards, the Rosella's vineyard and the Gary's vineyard in the Santa Lucia Highlands. I'm very, very good friends with the families that own those vineyards. The Pisoni families and the Franscioni family so good friends I performed, Jeff Pisoni's wedding. I actually got licensed (laughs) to do that. So that's very good friends at that point in time. And, um, wanted to do things differently. A lot of whole cluster, picking a little bit earlier and really not doing anything to the wines. I, I no addition of yeast, uh, uh, anything like that. Just kind of letting it make their, uh, make itself, if at all possible.
Doug Shafer:
Right. Well, you dropped off a bottle of 2019 Clarice to me and, uh, we popped it a couple days ago. I gotta tell you something. And I'm, I'm not trying to give you an advertisement here or an endorsement. But I'm just telling you, winemaker to winemaker, it was really, really pretty. It was... You know what I loved about it? There was this kind of softness, elegance about it, you know, the Pinot character, I'm starting, I'm starting to geek out here but it's just, love the nose. And this the whole balance and fragrance was just, it was very, it’s just, Adam, it was just elegant. It was just an elegant wine and, and I loved it. So my hat's off to you. It's a beautiful wine.
Adam Lee:
Well, thank you. That's, um, that means an awful, awful lot. I really wanted it to kind of have that balance and elegance. Um, honestly, Clarice was named after my grandmother. And my, uh, grandmother also didn't drink. Uh, she was, uh, a teetotaler. But she had a real spirit to her and, um, she taught me to cook. And, uh, she would cook uh, over long periods of time in crock pots. Because my grandfather was, uh, a farmer and she never really knew when he was going to be coming home at night. So she would say if you put the meat, the potatoes, the carrots, the broth, the seasoning all in at one time and let it cook slowly. They will all kind of meld together. If you add seasoning at the end it really stands out. So the whole philosophy at Clarice is to get all you can the best ingredients in the vineyard and then turn around and, um, bring them in together disparate sections in the vineyard. Kind of do a field blend but bring them in and ferment them together.
Doug Shafer:
Nice. Nice. Tell me more about your grandmother. Cause she's got a story, Clarice.
Adam Lee:
She does have a story. Um-
Doug Shafer:
I need to hear this one. This is back, this is Texas back in the early 1900s, I think. But can [-
Adam Lee:
Yeah. She was born in 1896. And she was, um, living in a small town called Giddings, Texas. And in Giddings, Texas she had been arranged to be, uh, married to the son of the pharmacist in town. Which would have been a huge financial step up, a societal step up, uh, to, to, to do that. But she had fallen in love with a guy who was a farmer. And he, they would leave notes for each other underneath a rock down by the creek there in Giddings. And eventually, two days before her birthday, she eloped with him. They ran off on a horse and buggy went all of 17 miles away to Dime Box, Texas. They were chased after by her brother and father, but it started raining that day. And they couldn't catch up, uh, to her. And so my grandparents from that point forward, were married for 67 years. And-
Doug Shafer:
I just love it. (Laughs). I just... ain't that great. That's so romantic. And so cool. And so Texas. It's great.
Adam Lee:
I-it, it, it is Texas. It's romantic. And you know, it's funny, Doug, I never really found that story out until my mom told me later about Clarice's daughter. Because my grandmother, you know, I, I obviously I met her later in her life. And she was more of a grandma. She was the person, she would let me eat the charms out of the Lucky Charms and not the cereal, you know. (laughs) She'd sit on the floor watching Scooby Doo with me, that kind of thing. But, um, she wasn't going to tell me that story. But my mom told me that story about the background, and she told me in relation to the idea of moving out to California and taking a chance on making wine. And she said you know in, when you're young in your life, and you don't really have that much to lose, that's the time to take those chances. Doug Shafer:7: Right. Right. So it's a lovely wine, it's a great story and also you're doing something, there's a whole new concept you're doing with, with sales and, and marketing. Tell us, tell us about that.
Adam Lee:
Yeah. So what I'm really trying to do there is to do, um, something very, very different which is starting a, it's a wine club per se. In some ways you could say it's traditional that, okay you, you sign up you get some wine you're, it's a subscription. But what I do after you get the, the wines, are simultaneously with it. Is you get to go to events and parties and other people's wineries. I, um, I try to involve other people. I, I'm under no illusion that, uh, Clarice is going to be the only Pinot or the only wine they're going to drink of any sort. I, I remember the days, uh, where we all were really working to support each other, certainly in the Pinot world. But in California Wine, we were underdogs. We were, uh, you know, I, I met Robert Mondavi twice in my life. And, and the what he did really as far as promoting California Wine... W-w-what a lot of people early, early on, did your, your father, um, promoting California Wine made a huge, huge difference. I, I worry a little that we have gotten, um, so big and, and so successful that we spend time trying to take shelf space from one another. 8 And what we need to do instead is to get more people drinking more good wine. So I like to do events. I've done events, uh, at wineries down in Santa Barbara. I've done, uh, events over in Napa with different wineries and, and, uh, working with people there. Where my members come and they get special tastings at certain places. Uh, at the same time, we also do, um, private Zoom tastings and Zoom events with members. I've, uh, had discussions, uh, on wine ingredient labeling. I had the head of, uh, the African American Vintners Association on talking about inclusivity in the wine business, uh, do a lot of different things to try to make it more of a community.
Doug Shafer:
Nice, nice. I like it good for you. Hey, I want to have a gig over here at Shafer with your customers because I want to take those Pinot Noir lovers. I'm going to turn them into Cabernet lovers. That's what I'm going to do. Ah, ah.
Adam Lee:
Yeah. Y-y-ou make a little more than just Cab. Maybe they could be a Chard lover too.
Doug Shafer:
Chard lover, a little Syrah, we can do, we can do a few things. So- Adam Lee:9 Yep. Doug Shafer:9 ... good. Thanks for telling us about that. It's a great project. Um, and so after that, um, I’m bouncing back to Jackson family in 2018. You're involved with something called Root and Rubble. Tell me about.
Adam Lee:
Root and, yes. So Root and Rubble was a project that an idea that I came up with after having spent some time in France in Chateauneuf-du-Pape. And seeing some of the great producers their aging, fermenting and aging their Grenache in concrete.
Doug Shafer:
Okay.
Adam Lee:
And I wanted to and, and over there in Chateauneuf, they call, uh, the, uh, Grenache, the Pinot Noir. You know there's, Chateauneuf are a blend of multiple red grapes. Doug Shafer:0: Right. Adam Lee:0: And they call the Grenache, the, the Pinot Noir of those grapes. And, uh, it came to me that maybe we could try making, uh, a Pinot that is all concrete. Uh, oak is, uh, a very expensive part of winemaking. And maybe there was something there about making a wine that wasn't just a light and fruity wine. But that, we could try and do some experiments, uh, and work truly with, with concrete. So we've been doing that as well and, and making an all concrete aged and fermented Pinot Noir.
Doug Shafer:
Nice. And so that's a, that's a KJ. Is that under the label, Root and Rubble, or is it -
Adam Lee:
I-it's, it's under the label Root and Rubble. Yes.
Doug Shafer:
Cool. Okay, I got a look for that one. And then you've got another project. Speaking of Chateaunuef, I think you met somebody over there. Tell me about that.
Adam Lee:
I did. I met a very, very good friend of mine, a gentleman named Philippe Cambie. Uh, Philippe is one of the leading winemakers in, in the world, certainly in the southern Rhone, and in, um, in all of France. He, uh, consults with 81 other wineries around the globe.
Doug Shafer:
Wow.
Adam Lee:
And Philippe's, just a, a big hearted, wonderful, wonderful, uh, gentleman. Um, he is someone that is, um, incredibly knowledgeable, obviously, as far as winemaking goes. Uh, and we were drinking at his house, um, having dinner and, uh, he mentioned that we were just talking about our, our lives in wine. And I was talking about m-my story and he just mused, kind of off the top of his head. I've always dreamed of making Pinot Noir.
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs)
Adam Lee:
And I loved love that wording. I mean Philippe, uh, Philippe's three white, first wines that he ever made, uh, all got 100s from Parker. So he could have said, I think I could be successful at making Pinot. He could say, uh, I could make money doing it. I mean, there are many ways he could have worded it. But when he said I've always dreamed of making Pinot Noir, uh, that just really tugged at my heart. And I, uh, basically emailed him, uh, once I returned. Thanked him for the dinner and mentioned that to him and asked him if he would be interested in starting a Pinot project together. So we started something called, uh, Beau Marchais. Uh, Beau Marchais is really his interpretation of Pinot Noir. I'm kind of the shepherd, uh, of that. But it's made in the same style in same way that he makes Chateauneuf-de-Pape
Doug Shafer:
Ah, interesting. Because I, we, you gave, you were so generous to give us so much wine, thank you. Um, we, we popped that the other day along with the Clarice, very different expression of Pinot Noir. And really kind of cool. It was just, it was different. It was, um, I don't know it was earthier. I got, maybe I got a little, a little more oak on it. It was kind of a deeper Pinot. God, I've never talked about wines on the show at all, this is kind of fun. (Laughs) It was, uh, it was very different than the, from the Clarice in a, in a really cool way. So that was, it was, how fun for you to be making these different styles of wine. Kind of cool.
Adam Lee:
You know, it is. And for me, it's also fun. I mean, Pinot is something now that I've done, it's hard for me to believe. But you know, in the middle of the 28th harvest here in my life right now, um, and we're getting old, Doug. I hate to say it, but it's, it's true.
Doug Shafer:
No, we're not. No, we're not.
Adam Lee:
No? (Laughs).
Doug Shafer:
We're just taking our stride baby. Don't even think about that.
Adam Lee:
I got, I got plenty of time to go. But, uh, it's allowed me to look at Pinot in a different way. And that's something I never really imagined, uh, you know, 20 plus years into it. That you could meet somebody, you could make wine, really kind of following their advice in, in their direction. And that was so thrilling. Now that I'm taking something that I know extremely well like the back of my hand, and I look at it anew. And that's, that's really exciting for me.
Doug Shafer:
That’s gotta be fun. So you guys, you're together. It's a partnership. You're making the wines here and he's over in France making wine right now this time of year. So how do you do that? Just get on the phone call and say, "Hey, it's tasting like this. It's looking like this." How's that work?
Adam Lee:
Y-yeah, a lot of... I mean, things like Zoom, obviously. Um, just the, uh, being able to, to be in touch with one another, FaceTime, showing him the vineyards when I'm out there. Taking pictures, um, and talking about it. And then, um, he comes over here three times a year and we taste and we blend - that was challenged by COVID. Not so much by anything else.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, yeah.
Adam Lee:
He wasn't able to get over here last year. So we ended up shipping samples to him. And I, uh, I did that and then ended up, uh, managed somehow to get over there in June this past year and taste with him.
Doug Shafer:
Oh, good for you. Yeah, that probably was a challenge. Um, that's neat. Well, so you got a lot going on. I got to ask you what's coming up? You got anything new? You got anything cooking?
Adam Lee:
Uh, I-
Doug Shafer:
That you, that you can talk about?
Adam Lee:
Yeah, there, there are a few, uh, different things. I mean, I consult for a few other wineries. Again Jackson's all cool with that as long as there's not anything huge, big. So I, I consult with a few different people. Uh, a vendor called Bucher here in the Russian River. Um, I play with a few things. Uh, Philippe has talked to me, uh, and another producer in Gigondas about kind of doing the, the mirror reflection of, uh, of what we do with Beau Marchais. And so instead of Philippe's vision and, uh, of Pinot here in California, maybe my vision of Grenache, there in over in Gigondas in the southern Rhone. And so that is something that we've been playing around with the idea. Uh, this year in France, uh, was not the year after the frost, that they had. And with COVID it was not the year for us to take it on. But that's, uh, there's some talks going on about that. So that could be a lot of fun.
Doug Shafer:
That'd be fun. Um, you know what, I, I really wanna make Chablis. I wanna make Chablis, there's only one place to make Chablis and that's in Chablis. Because I just love those wines so much. That's one of my dream.
Adam Lee:
I, I, I agree with you, Doug. That, it is a place that is so unique. I mean, California makes some incredible, incredible Chardonnays. But I don't think there's another place like Chablis.
Doug Shafer:
Ah, those wines, just love them, just love them. Anyway, and you know, you know, 15, 20 years ago, I didn't love them. And I do now. So again, as we change and experience different wines through life and tastes change and preferences change, and it's, uh, it's fun. It's a journey. It's a journey.
Adam Lee:
It is.
Doug Shafer:
So Mr. Lee where can people find your wines? What's the best... How can they get, get a hold of Clarice if possible? Or the Beau -Marchais and Root and Rubble? What's, how, how do they do it?
Adam Lee:
So the easiest way really is just to go to claricewinecompany.com, you can sign up there for the mailing list. Um, and, uh, most of it sold through that subscription model. Occasionally, I have some extra cases here or there. Same thing and, and by doing that, I'll get you on the Beau Marchais list, as well. So just please, you know, just go to claricewinecompany.com and you can sign up there. There's a little bit that's out but it's almost all restaurants. I, I, Blackberry Farm does some, uh, in Tennessee. Uh, coupled with the Bellagio. Th-there are more places like that to get it than Clarice really doesn't appear in retail right now. Doug Shafer:7 Got it. Got it. Alright, well Adam, thank you so much for taking the time during this busy time. I really appreciate, because I, I know what's going on with you. And same things going over here but, uh, mornings are busy, afternoons, we get a little bit of a break so it's a good time.
Adam Lee:
Thank you Doug. This was fantastic. It was good to catch up. And, and when we all feel a little more safe, um, in getting together in person. Let's drink some Chablis together.
Doug Shafer:
(Laughs) Sold, my friend. You take it, you take it easy, great talking to you. Thanks for sharing your story.
Adam Lee:
Take care.
Doug Shafer:
I'll see you. Bye.